OK Boomer..

[L4Dawg]

and you don't know what houses cost in the usa
Median home price nationwide is $350,000
Annual wages of more than $75,000 are needed to pay for major costs on the median-priced home in 2023

Home Affordability Worsens Across U.S. During Second Quarter Of 2023 As Home Prices Tick Upwards

ATTOM's Q2 2023 U.S. Home Affordability Report shows that median-priced homes are less affordable vs historical averages in 98% of counties.

www.attomdata.com

Of course........BUT.........you are talking about a median priced home of today's standards. That's a whole different animal. You are comparing that to a home with no AC, no gadgets, no labor saving devices, etc. THOSE are still pretty cheap. That they are hard to find says more about how the standard that people find acceptable has exponentially risen than it does about affordability in years past. You are trying to equate a modern Ford with a Model T. If you want to live like they did in those days you can still do it, and at a much cheaper price than your 2023 median home price. Heck, you can live cheaper by TODAY'S standards if you want to. You don't HAVE to live or work in high salary areas. My house is WELL below that price, and we have all the modern thingies. We even have iphones and wifi. It was a choice we made.

 

[L4Dawg]

Or we could raise the taxes on the rich so that they use the profit for more business expenses ( like payroll) rather than getting an extra billion.

Then we might get back to where people more than 38% of the young generation could afford to buy houses

Yeah, let's take the profit motive out of business, THAT will work.

 

[L4Dawg]

Alright, I am jumping in now.

For the last couple of years I have noticed all of the talk from people about sending their kids into the trades because there is so much money to be made. Well, it's not different than any other industry. The average plumber doesn't make a huge living. They make a decent living. Now a good plumber, that builds a business can make some great money. Same with HVAC. Or roofing. Or framing. But so can a barber, a bartender, a dude with a hot dog cart, or a 17ing dog walker.

I worked in and around the trades for a long time. I met a lot more broke 17ing plumbers, electricians, and framers than I ever did successful ones bringing in $150,000 a year. My guess is those financially successful plumbers out there would have kicked äss at any other field they ventured into as well.

The amount of plumbers in the world that ever make it to GS-15 pay are probably in the same spot of the bell curve as high school football players that get a D1 Scholarship. The odds of being a good plumber and business operator are pretty damn low.

You DID notice I said "if you play your cards right" RIGHT? As you pointed out that goes for ANY industry. Don't get me started on HVAC. I had to deal with THAT this week. It's better than sitting in Mississippi in August with no AC though, like my parents did until shortly before I was born. As I have repeatedly pointed out in this thread, our standards have risen, and that is always going to cost money.

 

[mcdawg22]

It's getting good now. They're fighting...

VS

 

[Podgy]

BTW, I do sympathize with some arguments of our younger brethren. We do have some old farts in D.C. who really need to go home. Biden has cognitive deficits, Trump is 77, McConnell had something the other day, Grassley from Iowa just got rid of his rotary phone, I think...it's been time for some to move on. AOC and Gaetz don't give me much hope in the younger generation, though. I'd rather we not elect anyone over age 70 even though there are perfectly healthy, smart and experienced people at and above that age. Our brains just start to work against us at some point. We do need some younger guys and gals in top leadership positions. Gerontocracy doesn't suit us.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

You DID notice I said "if you play your cards right" RIGHT? As you pointed out that goes for ANY industry. Don't get me started on HVAC. I had to deal with THAT this week. It's better than sitting in Mississippi in August with no AC though, like my parents did until shortly before I was born. As I have repeatedly pointed out in this thread, our standards have risen, and that is always going to cost money.

I didn't see the if you play your cards right comment. It must have been in an earlier post... But yes, if you play your cards right you technically can make a damn fine living just playing cards.***

Housing is a real problem. It's escalated beyond just standards of living from a cost standpoint. The current affordability crisis is driven by 40 years of declining interest rates, demographics (people living longer), lack of innovation in how we build (still stick framing 95% of residential homes), increased regulation/standards of how to build a home, and the biggest one is the concentration of resources away from the starter homes of the 50's and 60's into the move up homes that are out of the price range of young families in most markets since the 2007 collapse.

 

[Podgy]

What are the good jobs in jackson?

Median income there is 23,714 USD

Can I get one of those GS-15's in Jackson?

Beats me. I'm not sure what's the deal with Jackson. Those home prices are really low. But, I've heard you're not supposed to criticize it's leadership for some reason so give it a shot. Well, I shouldn't have said "shot" about Jackson. Maybe just give it a go.

 

[L4Dawg]

BTW, I do sympathize with some arguments of our younger brethren. We do have some old farts in D.C. who really need to go home. Biden has cognitive deficits, Trump is 77, McConnell had something the other day, Grassley from Iowa just got rid of his rotary phone, I think...it's been time for some to move on. AOC and Gaetz don't give me much hope in the younger generation, though. I'd rather we not elect anyone over age 70 even though there are perfectly healthy, smart and experienced people at and above that age. Our brains just start to work against us at some point. We do need some younger guys and gals in top leadership positions. Gerontocracy doesn't suit us.

This I have no real problem with.

 

[L4Dawg]

I didn't see the if you play your cards right comment. It must have been in an earlier post... But yes, if you play your cards right you technically can make a damn fine living just playing cards.***

Housing is a real problem. It's escalated beyond just standards of living from a cost standpoint. The current affordability crisis is driven by 40 years of declining interest rates, demographics (people living longer), lack of innovation in how we build (still stick framing 95% of residential homes), increased regulation/standards of how to build a home, and the biggest one is the concentration of resources away from the starter homes of the 50's and 60's into the move up homes that are out of the price range of young families in most markets since the 2007 collapse.

If we would let developers build houses in areas where there is a shortage, without the mounds of red tape, it would go a long way to solving that. And yes, most new builds are higher end housing. That is where the profit is, especially in areas where the cost of LAND is astronomical. Developers are not going to do a damn thing if there is no profit in it. Government backing is a band aide at best. In normal times the homes the people that buy those homes move out of would be the starter homes. IF we would maintain law and order in those areas, it might not be a cure all, but it would certainly help. Honestly, all of that would eventually shake out naturally if allowed to. Markets where there is no place for the teachers and the fireman are not sustainable long term, except in real resort areas...... and even then there has to be something close. If I understand where you live correctly, that might not apply to your area.

 

[Pookieray]

Work-able people don't get big checks sitting at home. TANF is the closest thing to that there is, and it's virtually impossible to get in Mississippi even though the federal government sends 10s of millions for it. In fact, in Mississippi, most of it is stolen. it's been in the news recently.

In 2021, less than 3,000 Mississippians received TANF payments. A family of 3 with no other income receives $260/month for a lifetime max of 24 months. This can of course be combined with SNAP & WIC (which are overwhelmingly used by Americans with jobs) but we're still talking less than $500 a month.

Work-able people should get nothing, not even $260 without out a job. If they have employment and don't meet the livable standards then by all means subsidize that income.

 

[InTheIttaBenaHotSun]

Just remember anti-boomer millennials and gen z'ers, it's not all bad. Boomers created xanax and other benzodiazepines to help with your anxiety along with cialis so they can continue to get it on with you know who after an early-bird meal and a quick ride around the hood in a golf cart. A win-win for all. One day that'll be all yours.

BOOM! Prodgy speaks the truth. It'll come quicker'n y'all think.....better save that money, live under your means and start goin to the gym in your early 40's.

 

[BigDawg0074]

The Boomers want it all. They made their money after the rest of the developed world was destroyed by war. Once they made their money they wanted more. They sold off half of the country to China while blowing out government spending and cutting taxes on the money they had already made. They also imported as much illegal cheap labor as possible to cut costs on the companies they now own. They pulled the ladder up behind them and blamed their kids for everything going to shite.

 

[johnson86-1]

So that's your definition of "Rich".

You know before 1980, a man could provide this for his family in the public sector.

But If fair pay, and decent benefits is what ya'll call "Rich" I'll conceded.

I expected a max income of $152,000 for a GS-15 (requires a PhD) is NOT a Rich person in America today. It's about 2 orders of magnitude from "Rich".

If you retire and have a guaranteed income north of 1.5x the median family income, you are rich.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

The more things change, the more things stay the same. Y'all hating on the boomers sound just like the boomers did back in the day hating on the generations that came before them. This generation stereotyping is hilarious. Every generation has about the same proportions of good and bad. The world goes on anyway.

And for all you young guys, keep in mind that mentally, short of disease playing a role, you never feel much different than 25 most of the time. So just relate to them and talk to them like they are normal humans. You’d be surprised what you can learn.

 

[AstroDog]

Thank You and You're Welcome.

 

[johnson86-1]

Healthcare is more expensive because health insurance companies took over the industry in the 1980's and 1990's

You are partly right, but not for the reasons you think. We do have expensive health care in part because we have a crazy amount of 3rd party payments, so consumers don't really feel the need to worry about prices, but we've also severely restricted supply, so there's limited ability for 3rd party payers to control cost. If we had more direct payment, consumers would still have little ability to control costs because of the restriction on supply except by foregoing some of the more costly treatments.

 

[johnson86-1]

you left out welfare,

No reason an able bodied person should't have a job. Welfare should only exist for the disabled. A subsidy should pick up for those that don't meet the needs for basic living requirments. Not a lifetime or generations of welfare recipients.

Good luck getting politicians to tell people that we're only going to have welfare for the disabled. You'd have all the social security and medicare recipients grabbing their can in one hand and their AR-15 in the other.

 

[johnson86-1]

$220k isn’t rich? Say what?

Yea, it's interesting that so much of our class warfare rhetoric isn't from people making $30k a year angry about people making $220k. It's about $220k people being angry about not making $1M. It's amazing that they can manage to get a pretty good salary but never have the curiosity to see what kind of taxes they'd pay if we had a more typical european tax scheme. They'd probably be the biggest losers out of everybody. Of course some of them are just envious and would gladly take a reduction in their quality of life if it meant richer people got a bigger hit, but some of them really seem to think they'd actually end up better off rather than significantly worse off. I'm assuming the latter are much more prevalent because most of them aren't donating 30% of their salary to the less fortunate.

 

[Darryl Steight]

View attachment 377695

Does DS give you a kicker if it goes 5+ pages?

 

[The Peeper]

"We used to be able to build things. We used to be able to work one job and afford to buy a house and a car and send kids to college."

You just described us boomers. My wife and I put both of our kids through college and they graduated w/in the last 8 years and got degrees. We paid for books and living expenses, they are now paying their school loans back w/ their earnings. One is married, the other not. They both own a home and cars. One bought a boat this summer. I haven't given either a penny since they graduated. You act like it doesn't happen anymore and I guess it doesn't if the chosen major is Philosophy, English, Gender Studies, Journalism, etc.

 

[thatsbaseball]

You just described us boomers. My wife and I put both of our kids through college and they graduated w/in the last 8 years and got degrees. We paid for books and living expenses, they are now paying their school loans back w/ their earnings. One is married, the other not. They both own a home and cars. One bought a boat this summer. I haven't given either a penny since they graduated. You act like it doesn't happen anymore and I guess it doesn't if the chosen major is Philosophy, English, Gender Studies, Journalism, etc.

And I doubt that your kids have time to sit around on a message board whining about how bad they have it because your generation didn't leave their streets paved with gold.

 

[ckDOG]

Boomers did some good things and some bad things. Like any generation. Although my gripe with Boomers is mostly centered around themselves placing some grand importance to themselves bc the Greatest Generation rid the world of rising fascism and 17ed a whole bunch after they did it. Congrats. Want a cookie? Sort of like native Texans being proud of being native Texans like they won a championship or something. Good job, you slid out of the right ******.

Lighter hearted point. As a man sitting on that edge of Gen X and Millennials (the Oregon Trail generation) and 20+ years into my career, this tweet speaks to me. I feel like I'm sandwiched between idiots that can't solve problems many days.

 

[JackShephard]

Boomers did some good things and some bad things. Like any generation. Although my gripe with Boomers is mostly centered around themselves placing some grand importance to themselves bc the Greatest Generation rid the world of rising fascism and 17ed a whole bunch after they did it. Congrats. Want a cookie? Sort of like native Texans being proud of being native Texans like they won a championship or something. Good job, you slid out of the right ******.

Lighter hearted point. As a man sitting on that edge of Gen X and Millennials (the Oregon Trail generation) and 20+ years into my career, this tweet speaks to me. I feel like I'm sandwiched between idiots that can't solve problems many days.

Same. I, too, am Oregon Trail. It's like 100% hit or miss between both of those groups. You can find superstars or duds in either group, but just finding something in the middle is near impossible. Hiring has been Hell for the last 5 - 10 years.

 

[ChE1997]

Of course........BUT.........you are talking about a median priced home of today's standards. That's a whole different animal. You are comparing that to a home with no AC, no gadgets, no labor saving devices, etc. THOSE are still pretty cheap. That they are hard to find says more about how the standard that people find acceptable has exponentially risen than it does about affordability in years past. You are trying to equate a modern Ford with a Model T. If you want to live like they did in those days you can still do it, and at a much cheaper price than your 2023 median home price. Heck, you can live cheaper by TODAY'S standards if you want to. You don't HAVE to live or work in high salary areas. My house is WELL below that price, and we have all the modern thingies. We even have iphones and wifi. It was a choice we made.

If we would let developers build houses in areas where there is a shortage, without the mounds of red tape, it would go a long way to solving that. And yes, most new builds are higher end housing. That is where the profit is, especially in areas where the cost of LAND is astronomical. Developers are not going to do a damn thing if there is no profit in it. Government backing is a band aide at best. In normal times the homes the people that buy those homes move out of would be the starter homes. IF we would maintain law and order in those areas, it might not be a cure all, but it would certainly help. Honestly, all of that would eventually shake out naturally if allowed to. Markets where there is no place for the teachers and the fireman are not sustainable long term, except in real resort areas...... and even then there has to be something close. If I understand where you live correctly, that might not apply to your area.

No. You cannot. They don't build affordable houses anymore.

For this to be true, a home like that has to be available . I.e., built or existing. Existing were bought by investment firms, New homes are at a higher price point.

I don't know how you keep missing this point. You seem to think that the reason those don't exist is because people want nice things. Which is partly true. But you also won't find a builder that will build that house. Mostly due to he will make more money building a mc mansion and selling it for 10x the price and profit.

Even if we "let developers build where they want" Which is happening in the Houston area, the developer just packs $400,000+ houses in. Because he makes more money. Ther is no incentive for him to build more affordable houses. Its the same labor and the same land. The materials are cheaper but not enough to offset the MUCH higher profit.

In normal times the homes the people that buy those homes move out of would be the starter homes.

This doesn't exist anymore...

"Markets where there is no place for the teachers and the fireman are not sustainable long term"

That's my 17ing point! And that's where the country is....

 

[L4Dawg]

No. You cannot. They don't build affordable houses anymore.

Yes, they do. They don't do it unaffordable places, but what you describe is NOT the whole country. You need to get out more.

 

[ChE1997]

If we would let developers build houses in areas where there is a shortage, without the mounds of red tape, it would go a long way to solving that. And yes, most new builds are higher end housing. That is where the profit is, especially in areas where the cost of LAND is astronomical. Developers are not going to do a damn thing if there is no profit in it. Government backing is a band aide at best. In normal times the homes the people that buy those homes move out of would be the starter homes. IF we would maintain law and order in those areas, it might not be a cure all, but it would certainly help. Honestly, all of that would eventually shake out naturally if allowed to. Markets where there is no place for the teachers and the fireman are not sustainable long term, except in real resort areas...... and even then there has to be something close. If I understand where you live correctly, that might not apply to your area.

Investment Firms Aren’t Buying All the Houses. But They Are Buying the Most Important Ones.

Invitation Homes bought 90 percent of the homes for sale in some ZIP codes in Atlanta in the early 2010s.

slate.com

They’re really buying up the stock of relatively inexpensive single-family homes built since the 1970s in growing metro areas. They mostly ignore bigger and more expensive houses, especially ones that are move-in ready: Wealthy boomers and the nation’s finance and tech bros nab those properties. And they’re also ignoring cities with stable or shrinking populations, like Providence and Pittsburgh.

But investors are depleting the inventory of the precise houses that might otherwise be obtainable for younger, working- and middle-class households, in the cities where those workers can easily find good-paying jobs, like Atlanta (22 percent of home purchases according to Redfin data), Charlotte (22 percent), and Phoenix (20 percent). More importantly, they’re able to scour those markets scientifically and systematically to make cash offers on the most attractively priced properties. While normal people buy houses when they actually need to move somewhere, (savvy) investors buy houses several years before a bunch of people need to move to an area. Whether they’re tracking where major employers are building new offices or looking at public school enrollment data, being ahead of the market gives big firms a big leg up.

Across metro Atlanta, large companies are buying up single-family houses

Large investment firms are pushing homeownership out of reach for many first-time buyers, an Atlanta Journal-Constitution investigation has found. Single-family houses have been snatched up in the thousands by private equity firms and publicly traded companies, converted into rental properties...

www.ajc.com

Investors bought one of every three homes for sale [in Atlanta] from July 2021 to June 2022

Buying a Home in Texas Often Requires Outbidding Big-Money Investors

A pair of bills at the Lege seek to help Texans compete for real estate against these deep-pocketed companies.

www.texasmonthly.com

After getting preapproved for a $250,000 mortgage, she and her real estate agent, Vachael Starks, set out to find a house with three bedrooms and two baths. They’re still looking.

To date, they’ve put in full-price bids on between twenty and thirty properties, in locations ranging from Houston’s south side to suburban Spring, without any success. Starks says that “cash investors from everywhere” have outbid Robertson on almost every property.

Why the Road Is Getting Even Rockier for First-Time Home Buyers (Published 2022)

Investors and corporations are buying up houses and turning them into rental properties. In Charlotte, N.C., that is adding to the hurdles facing would-be buyers navigating a brutal market.

www.nytimes.com

They may have to offer tens of thousands of dollars over the asking price only to have those offers rejected anyway, Ms. Hilton, a real estate agent, tells them. They might have to put up thousands of dollars in nonrefundable fees to get a seller to consider their offer. And if they’re looking for a home for less than $300,000, they might be out of luck.

“The more that investors buy up entire communities and turn them into rental communities — people don’t have a choice anymore,” “They either can’t afford to buy anymore, or there’s nothing to buy.”

 

[ChE1997]

Yes, they do. They don't do it unaffordable places, but what you describe is NOT the whole country. You need to get out more.

You are right they don't do in the entire country They only do it where the JOBS are....

If they are not doing where you have been, they don't see the job creation there.

You should try leaving Mississippi more.

In the cities where workers can easily find good-paying jobs, Investors buy inexpensive single-family homes several years before a bunch of people need to move to an area. Whether they’re tracking where major employers are building new offices or looking at public school enrollment data, being ahead of the market gives big firms a big leg up.

 

[L4Dawg]

You are right they don't do in the entire country They only do it where the JOBS are....

If they are not doing where you have been, they don't see the job creation there.

You should try leaving Mississippi more.

In the cities where workers can easily find good-paying jobs, Investors buy inexpensive single-family homes several years before a bunch of people need to move to an area. Whether they’re tracking where major employers are building new offices or looking at public school enrollment data, being ahead of the market gives big firms a big leg up.

You should try looking at areas other than where you live. You should also pay attention to the things the media never talks about, like where things actually are good. There are a lot of those places. Not every place is a dystopian expensive hell. Most of those places have places to work too.

While you are at it, read some history. Boomtowns are ALWAYS expensive.

 

[Boom Boom]

$220,000 is still 2 orders of magnitude from rich. It's very comfortable.

And to get that you need a PhD, and 20 years in.

And that you could make more in the private sector.

 

[Boom Boom]

That's no different than any other generation. I'm just old enough to have heard this all before from the boomers. That could be an exact quote from the 60s. Every generation thinks the one before it screwed everything up and they are going to fix it as soon as THEY take power. I bet the early Cro-Magnons sat around and talked about how the Neanderthals had screwed things up and how THEY were going to fix it.

Ok, Boomer. Let's ignore the very thing that gave the Baby Boomers their name. Such a typical Boomer.

 

[johnson86-1]

You are right they don't do in the entire country They only do it where the JOBS are....

If they are not doing where you have been, they don't see the job creation there.

You should try leaving Mississippi more.

In the cities where workers can easily find good-paying jobs, Investors buy inexpensive single-family homes several years before a bunch of people need to move to an area. Whether they’re tracking where major employers are building new offices or looking at public school enrollment data, being ahead of the market gives big firms a big leg up.

The investors are just a symptom of the problem. We make building houses expensive with red tape, exclusionary zoning, and by outlawing lower quality homes in some ways (while also ensuring that tons of homes built are low quality tract homes, just more expensive ones that can check the right boxes). Where I live we could have lots of infill development. But the local government makes it prohibitively expensive to deal with them, partly because they don't know what they're doing and partly because the big developers that support the right people want infill to be difficult, because that makes there cookie cutter POS's on clear cut land more attractive.

If investors knew supply wouldn'dt be constrained, they wouldn't be interested in all those houses. They need the appreciation to make the numbers work. If you eliminate the restraints that make above market appreciation more likely, you'd see less investors stepping in in bulk.

 

[ChE1997]

You should try looking at areas other than where you live.

Are you not reading the links I sent?
In addition to Texas, Massachusetts, and California that have passed Bills to try and correct this,

Here is a list for you.
Milwaukee, WI
Indianapolis.
Phoenix. -.
Lakeland, Florida. ...
Charlotte, North Carolina. ...
Clarksville, Tennessee. ...
Atlanta. ...
Macon, Georgia.
Tucson, Arizona.
Denver
Las Vegas
Miami
Jacksonville
Columbus OH
Cleveland
Cincinnati

Houses for Rent | Invitation Homes

Find the perfect house for rent from Invitation Homes. Rental homes are updated, professionally managed, & pet friendly. View homes for rent and lease today.

lease.invitationhomes.com

Find your next home with Tricon Residential

At Tricon Residential, we offer professionally managed, quality single-family rental homes and apartments across North America.

triconresidential.com

And now they are doing build-to-rent. How do you think that affects home ownership?

 

[ChE1997]

The investors are just a symptom of the problem. We make building houses expensive with red tape, exclusionary zoning, and by outlawing lower quality homes in some ways (while also ensuring that tons of homes built are low quality tract homes, just more expensive ones that can check the right boxes). Where I live we could have lots of infill development. But the local government makes it prohibitively expensive to deal with them, partly because they don't know what they're doing and partly because the big developers that support the right people want infill to be difficult, because that makes there cookie cutter POS's on clear cut land more attractive.

If investors knew supply wouldn'dt be constrained, they wouldn't be interested in all those houses. They need the appreciation to make the numbers work. If you eliminate the restraints that make above market appreciation more likely, you'd see less investors stepping in in bulk.

We don't make "building houses expensive". We have a housing shortage.

Because of the decline in new builds post the 2008 crash.

And the investors are doing continuing on purpose to continue to constrain supply.

We have a finite supply of new housing builds (labor, and materials). The profits are higher on luxury homes vs affordable homes. Therefore, a developer will build to sell a higher profit home over a lower profit home. It's simple economics.

In the past, this was not an issue because those selling the older smaller house to upgrade would sell to another first time homebuyer. Now, in places that have jobs, those houses are/were bought by investment houses and are being rented... Which constrains the supply.

To correct this, investment groups are now building neighborhoods of houses to rent for those that cannot afford a house... Which further constrains supply...
Because they can make more money renting than selling the affordable housing

But think of this..
Who will be able to buy the higher priced houses without the equity of the starter house to use as a down payment? Probably on those that can pay cash or use Hard Money...

 

[mstateglfr]

Alright, I am jumping in now.

For the last couple of years I have noticed all of the talk from people about sending their kids into the trades because there is so much money to be made. Well, it's not different than any other industry. The average plumber doesn't make a huge living. They make a decent living. Now a good plumber, that builds a business can make some great money. Same with HVAC. Or roofing. Or framing. But so can a barber, a bartender, a dude with a hot dog cart, or a 17ing dog walker.

I worked in and around the trades for a long time. I met a lot more broke 17ing plumbers, electricians, and framers than I ever did successful ones bringing in $150,000 a year. My guess is those financially successful plumbers out there would have kicked äss at any other field they ventured into as well.

The amount of plumbers in the world that ever make it to GS-15 pay are probably in the same spot of the bell curve as high school football players that get a D1 Scholarship. The odds of being a good plumber and business operator are pretty damn low.

This all 17ing day. The trend over the last 10 years to **** on a college education and push for trades is fascinating to watch because it largely feels like people are just parroting something that aligns with their biases.

Trades are short handed and yeah I will pay(and have paid) a good amount for a solid electrician.
The benefit of those jobs is that they wont be eliminated by ChatGPT and they pay right away out of high school. Its a genuinely good path to take for someone that has no interest/ability to graduate from a 4 year college. Go learn on the job and get paid. Hell, go to a company that will pay for an associates degree while you work- 2 birds 1 stone, and thats a common thing around me.
But to claim its better than a college education is 17ing goofy. The numbers straight up disagree with that claim.

Also, what % of plumbers does everyone see that are 60 years old? Or electricians? Or welders? Carpenters? The % is low because the jobs are hell on the body. Its physically demanding and there is a high amount of injury and general degradation. Many that are in the businesses at that point are managing vs actively working. And at least around here, the ones that are managing have degrees.

 

[ChE1997]

You should try looking at areas other than where you live. You should also pay attention to the things the media never talks about, like where things actually are good. There are a lot of those places. Not every place is a dystopian expensive hell. Most of those places have places to work too.

While you are at it, read some history. Boomtowns are ALWAYS expensive.

Ok Educate me on these "magical, secret places" with GOOD places to work. Because you make it sound like Wakanda.

And i see you moved the goalposts to "Boomtowns are always expensive "

From your earlier point of " housing is affordable everywhere in the country"

I've never intimated that is a dystopian hell. I'm saying that the life Boomers had no longer exisits. Because you ruined it. and you think its still there if " you just worked hard like I did", or you waited to have kids" Or you skipped getting a coffee".

If I want to live where I can get a good paying job, with good schools, in my STEM degreed field, I would not be able to afford a house until i saved a large % of my salary.

That was not true 25 years ago.

And I'll be glad to kick you *** in History any time you want.

 

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

If you retire and have a guaranteed income north of 1.5x the median family income, you are rich.

The poor, poor pitiful poor in this country have a better standard of living than the middle class in many European countries.

 

[mstateglfr]

$220k isn’t rich? Say what?

How much do I need to make to be in the top 1%, 5%, and 10% in the US? It's probably less than you think

Are you on the upper rungs of the class ladder?

www.yahoo.com

- $90k is the average individual income amongst middle class,
- To be in the top 10%, you need to bring in $133k per year.
- To be in the top 5% though, you need to bring in $223k per year.
- The wage gap at the top, between even the top 5% and top 1%, continues to grow exponentially.

I am not sure what is/isnt 'rich' since it heavily depends on location, but I would probably say its the top 3% in income earners in a given area.

Are you in the American middle class? Find out with our income calculator

About half of U.S. adults (52%) lived in middle-income households in 2022, according to our new analysis of government data.

www.pewresearch.org

This has a calculator that allows you to enter your state, metro, household income, and people in household to see how you compare.
It goes further and compares within your education level, race, and marital status.

I was straight up shocked to see how low we are in our metro, given our education, age, race, and marital status.
Our lifestyle is pretty 17ing cushy and extremely stable, yet we are dirty beggars amongst our peers.

 

[mstateglfr]

Media and social media are also feeding lies to young Americans and making them far-too-pessimistic and anxious. The negativity bias of modern journalism and social media is genuine.

This is true regardless of age group. The amount of insane crap that so many over 50 believe, due to media consumption, could fill up oceans.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

How much do I need to make to be in the top 1%, 5%, and 10% in the US? It's probably less than you think

Are you on the upper rungs of the class ladder?

www.yahoo.com

- $90k is the average individual income amongst middle class,
- To be in the top 10%, you need to bring in $133k per year.
- To be in the top 5% though, you need to bring in $223k per year.
- The wage gap at the top, between even the top 5% and top 1%, continues to grow exponentially.

I am not sure what is/isnt 'rich' since it heavily depends on location, but I would probably say its the top 3% in income earners in a given area.

Are you in the American middle class? Find out with our income calculator

About half of U.S. adults (52%) lived in middle-income households in 2022, according to our new analysis of government data.

www.pewresearch.org

This has a calculator that allows you to enter your state, metro, household income, and people in household to see how you compare.
It goes further and compares within your education level, race, and marital status.

I was straight up shocked to see how low we are in our metro, given our education, age, race, and marital status.
Our lifestyle is pretty 17ing cushy and extremely stable, yet we are dirty beggars amongst our peers.

Right, $220k is easily “rich”.

 

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

And I'll be glad to kick you *** in History any time you want.

No doubt about it. You could kick everyone’s *** with your opinion of history.