OT: The murders in IDAHO are insane relying on the reported facts so far. (Link)
- Thread starter Mr. Potter
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That's a relief. I've read most of your posts, thought I had found a pattern, and was wondering about that, but I believe you, man!
I'm sure some will attack the use of Forensic Genealogy for use in criminal cases, but remember, detectives still need strong evidence to support a conviction. Evidence beyond a family tree. The FG technique is used to identify suspects only. From there, investigators still need to confirm that the person truly committed the crime. It's an incredible tool for investigators and, quite frankly, I'm surprised it's not used more frequently in active violent crimes.Good article on the case and forensic genealogy.
Police Haven’t Said How They Cracked the Idaho Murders. This Is How.
Investigators found suspect Bryan Kohberger with the method that solved the Golden State Killer case. But they aren’t saying so.slate.com
Actually I have been surprised that there hasn't been more of controversy about how the Forensic Genealogy is gathered. The laws are lagging behind, but a few states have/are addressing it.
I'm sure the ACLU is looking at every angle to try to stop the "discarded collection." It's a tough call. It's a way to capture a violent criminal quickly, but it can be viewed as an invasion of privacy. I'll take get the bad guy off the streets any day in this scenario.
If the ACLU overturning “discarded collection” was a thing, it would already have happened. I suppose you could legislate this problem away, I honestly have no idea, but your last sentence is the reason it’s not going to happen.
It's not the 'discarded collection' that is the new issue. It's the using of family geneaology & dna websites, etc. and the privacy of those that have participated in them.
It’s been decided in the Supreme Court, California v Greenwood. I suspected this but did not definitely know.
California v. Greenwood - Wikipedia
Another ball of wax, yeah. One would think that this would be a violation of the 4th A but that’s not for me to decide.
On the other hand, it’s an interesting question: How did using the genealogy databases violate Kohberger’s privacy?
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To me, I think the bigger issue isn't Bryan Kohberger's rights, it's the rights of everyone else in the database. These databases were not built on DNA left at crime scenes or people convicted of crimes, etc. like CODIS.
Those in the database volunteered to give their DNA, correct? I did Ancestry and found that many of my cousins had also done the same.
From the linked article:
Once the DNA profile is ready, it gets uploaded to GEDmatch or FamilyTreeDNA, if not both; these are two primary genealogy sites that permit some types of law enforcement searches. The FBI played a role in the forensic genealogy work in the Idaho case, according to the source familiar with the investigation, something several genealogists confirmed would be likely to happen in such a high-profile investigation. (The FBI declined to comment, and Anthony Dahlinger, spokesperson for the Moscow Police Department, wrote, “Due to the gag order issued by our Judge I am not allowed to discuss the case in any form.”)
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The first camp says leaving it out is offensive. The technique relies on members of the public who’ve chosen to opt in to genealogy databases to allow law enforcement to use their DNA profiles to help identify their relatives. Therefore, the public deserves to know when it is used. (Contrary to what many people think, Ancestry and 23andMe don’t easily enable law enforcement searches, so GEDmatch and FamilyTreeDNA are what we’re talking about here. With FamilyTreeDNA, you’re opted in by default. With GEDmatch, users have to click a box.) Because it’s not in these court documents, it’s difficult to know how many times it’s been used or the kinds of cases in which law enforcement applies it.
Police Haven’t Said How They Cracked the Idaho Murders. This Is How.
Investigators found suspect Bryan Kohberger with the method that solved the Golden State Killer case. But they aren’t saying so.
Yes, I read that prior. I think where it gets murky is if my 4th cousin gave their DNA to one of these services and that was used to identify me. @manatree was saying that it might violate the rights of those in the database, but those in the database gave their DNA willingly.From the linked article:
Once the DNA profile is ready, it gets uploaded to GEDmatch or FamilyTreeDNA, if not both; these are two primary genealogy sites that permit some types of law enforcement searches. The FBI played a role in the forensic genealogy work in the Idaho case, according to the source familiar with the investigation, something several genealogists confirmed would be likely to happen in such a high-profile investigation. (The FBI declined to comment, and Anthony Dahlinger, spokesperson for the Moscow Police Department, wrote, “Due to the gag order issued by our Judge I am not allowed to discuss the case in any form.”)
....
The first camp says leaving it out is offensive. The technique relies on members of the public who’ve chosen to opt in to genealogy databases to allow law enforcement to use their DNA profiles to help identify their relatives. Therefore, the public deserves to know when it is used. (Contrary to what many people think, Ancestry and 23andMe don’t easily enable law enforcement searches, so GEDmatch and FamilyTreeDNA are what we’re talking about here. With FamilyTreeDNA, you’re opted in by default. With GEDmatch, users have to click a box.) Because it’s not in these court documents, it’s difficult to know how many times it’s been used or the kinds of cases in which law enforcement applies it.
Police Haven’t Said How They Cracked the Idaho Murders. This Is How.
Investigators found suspect Bryan Kohberger with the method that solved the Golden State Killer case. But they aren’t saying so.
My father in law won't do Ancestry because he's worried that it can be used to track him. I tell him that no one on Earth would want to track him and both my wife and her brother both have done Ancestry so he may as well too. They basically have his DNA as well.
DNA is best used for exclusion. If I have done nothing wrong, I would want everyone to voluntarily provide DNA samples. I'd give it in a heartbeat but I know there are ethical worries about insurance companies determining pre-existing conditions and denial of service.Yes, I read that prior. I think where it gets murky is if my 4th cousin gave their DNA to one of these services and that was used to identify me. @manatree was saying that it might violate the rights of those in the database, but those in the database gave their DNA willingly.
My father in law won't do Ancestry because he's worried that it can be used to track him. I tell him that no one on Earth would want to track him and both my wife and her brother both have done Ancestry so he may as well too. They basically have his DNA as well.
I'm admittedly giving Slate the benefit of the doubt here. We have no way of knowing that GEDmatch and FamilyTreeDNA (with the box checked) were used. Also, when they write, "Ancestry and 23andMe don’t easily enable law enforcement searches," not "Ancestry and 23andMe prohibit enable law enforcement searches." We just don't know what the process was and what potential challenges could/will be raised. We do know that Kohberger's attorneys waived his right to a speedy trial, the prelim isn't until June 26, and that a lot can happen between now and then. I wonder how long it will be before the gag order is violated?Yes, I read that prior. I think where it gets murky is if my 4th cousin gave their DNA to one of these services and that was used to identify me. @manatree was saying that it might violate the rights of those in the database, but those in the database gave their DNA willingly.
My father in law won't do Ancestry because he's worried that it can be used to track him. I tell him that no one on Earth would want to track him and both my wife and her brother both have done Ancestry so he may as well too. They basically have his DNA as well.
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The people people in those genealogy dna sites did not volunteer to freely provide that information to police.
There's a 2 hour special on ABC tomorrow night on the case.
My guess is they did not use Genetic/Forensic Genealogy in this case.
I believe the Hyundai was the key. They found vehicle matches in the area (checked ID DOT record and campus registered vehicles, including WSU, for out of state vehicles). Then they used the phone records of those car owners to see if they were pinging in the area.
Once they zeroed in on him, they put him under surveillance and captured the discarded DNA. It matched (one generation away) the DNA on the sheath.
Again, great police work
I believe the Hyundai was the key. They found vehicle matches in the area (checked ID DOT record and campus registered vehicles, including WSU, for out of state vehicles). Then they used the phone records of those car owners to see if they were pinging in the area.
Once they zeroed in on him, they put him under surveillance and captured the discarded DNA. It matched (one generation away) the DNA on the sheath.
Again, great police work
No you didn't. We don't even know for sure that they used forensic genealogy. Slate claims to have sources that say they did, and others have speculated that it was used. but the authorities have not said a word about it. We only know from the PCA about the retrieval of the garbage from Kohberger's parents' and neighbor's curbs that was used to get the Y chromosome match with his father.
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This makes sense. They had DNA from the sheath, which matched Kohberger’s father, one generation away. No need to use the genealogy database. Easy peasy.
Werent there like 90 white elantras on the campus alone? I think it’s a bit of a stretch to think the car alone led to identification. I think running the DNA through the databases was the tipping point which led to identification. Additional police work surrounding the vehicle and the cell phone helped build PC for the arrest and will be used in trial.
It’s my understanding that the primary DNA database they have available is the FBI CODIS DB, which is limited in collection. If he wasn’t a felon, he likely wouldn’t be in the DB. At least that’s my understanding. Does anyone know who/when your DNA is added to the CODIS DB?
Search warrants for accused Idaho killer Bryan Kohberger’s home unsealed
Washington State University Police recovered a possibly blood-stained mattress cover, human hairs, a glove and a computer from University of Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger’s apartment, accord…
nypost.com
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