That's my thinking too. That being said, I agree with Harvard Gamecock, there would be no actual movement for a couple of years.
Report of Clemson and FSU to SEC
- Thread starter TN-Gamecock
- Start date
I agree with you there too. We don't know what we don't know. Most expansion moves historically have surprised people.
We're not arguing dollars, we're arguing dollars vs increase in schedule difficulty. But I guess getting bogged down in semantics is the intention at this point.
And I didn't say you had a snappy comeback, I said you wanted one.
It bears repeating that if the SEC brings in new members, ESPN will have to put more money into the SEC so that there's no financial harm to current members. I don't know what Disney's (who owns ESPN) financial health is. I know that Disney laid off thousands starting a month or so ago. And Disney's stock has cratered for the past 2 years and the past year compared to the rest of the market. There has been whispers in the financial community about Disney possibly selling ESPN.
So, the SEC MUST be compensated for taking in new members, unless the SEC has suddenly become a charity.
So, the SEC MUST be compensated for taking in new members, unless the SEC has suddenly become a charity.
You can argue whatever you'd like. I'm arguing dollars, which is clearly the crux of the matter. Just ask CU and FSU...and perhaps even UNC at this juncture.
And no, I'm not in search of snappy comebacks. But I do appreciate you telling me what I am looking for.
This is what I've been thinking too.
Everything these days is about maximizing revenue. Will the SEC get a big enough raise from the TV dollars by adding new members that it increases the other SEC programs' payouts? If the answer is yes, then I could see the SEC trying to add Clemson and Florida State. If the answer is no, which I'd imagine is the case at this point, then it's not happening.
There's no point in splitting a slightly bigger pie 18 ways if the slightly smaller pie split 16 ways is a larger total for each member.
I don't think charity will come into it at all. They'll make the decision based on money. They, like many people, will have different opinions on of brands or footprints ultimately win out. Imo
Dollars is clearly the crux of moving conferences. Whether those dollars outweigh the burden of playing a SEC schedule, and the subsequent drop in their win totals, is a different matter.
And you're welcome.
Last edited:
The negative impact of playing an SEC schedule is debatable. What isn't debatable is that CU, FSU and the rest of the ACC cannot compete with revenue that is roughly 50% of the SEC and BIG10. But feel free to continue ignoring that point.
Awesome.
I agree with you that for the schools sitting on the outside of the SEC or B1G, it is all about the current money disparity. The conferences have to have a longer term vision....what will increase viewership (and consequenty revenue) in the long term, a couple of currently "elite" type teams or additional territory within your own region that adds to large state universities that have a lot of graduate. I think the latter is the better bet.,,,especially when there is no guarantees that a CU or FSU will continue their recent success.
Thanks for that bolded part. You could have lead with that and saved some worthless back and forth.
The rest is an interesting opinion. I must admit, I've heard a version of that statement going on 30 years now, and I'll keep waiting for it to happen.
In all honesty though, I think we'll never get to see if it's true or not this time.
I agree with that. I believe, and certainly hope, that the SEC gets the money up front and in hand, not based on promises.
LOL...let's revisit the national champions going back to 2015:
2015 - Bama
2016 - CU
2017 - Bama
2018 - CU
2019 - LSU
2020 - Bama
2021 - UGA
2022 - UGA
Two observations:
- The 'burden' of playing an SEC schedule does not appear to hinder a school from winning a championship (six of eight winners). Given the 75% success rate, it almost seems like it helps.
- CU is fully capable of winning a championship (two of eight winners, with both wins coming against the best of the SEC).
Conclusion: it would be moronic to combine CU's ability to win a championship with the money and cache that comes with being a member of the SEC.
I'm sorry...did you say something about my (bolded) comment?
Um, you haven't been hearing that for 30 years. The insurmountable revenue discrepancy is a recent phenomenon, thanks to the pending addition of Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC. Surely, you don't think that the impact of $100MM vs $50MM in annual revenue is a matter of opinion. Or do you?
Now I understand your comments. You're just trolling the board on a boring Monday afternoon?
I think UNC highly over estimates there value to the Big. They are Big Fish in little pond in the ACC. They would be another NE in the big ten much like MD
I did say something about your bolded comment. I said you could have led with that and saved a bunch of worthless back and forth.
CU's ability to win a championship are in the rear view mirror. And even with those teams, would they have won the title if they had to play in the SEC? Debatable. But they don't have generational qb's beating down their door anymore.
And yes, I've been hearing about the revenue difference for 30 years. The numbers change, the comments remain the same.
And I'm trolling, because I think clemson will be in another conference in a few years? Interesting take.
Big fish monetarily. I don't think they'd be very competitive in football in that conference. Jmo
So, you can't argue the bolded comment, along with subsequent color added? Noted.
Perhaps...with the ability and likelihood decreasing with each passing year, so long as they remain in the ACC.
Due in part to not being in a premier football conference.
Funny stuff. What you may have heard 30 years ago has zero relevance to the pending revenue delta.
30 years ago = finding a $20 bill on the sidewalk.
Today = winning the lottery.
Big difference, my friend.
You misunderstand again. I was agreeing with the bolded comment.
Because they were in a premier conference when they signed the generational qb's?
The pending revenue delta? I think those were the exact words I heard 30 years ago.
The ACC of 2015 is not the ACC of 2025.
No, they weren't. Please cite a $50MM delta from ~ 1990.
Sorry...I forgot that you are trolling.
The ACC was not premier in either timeframe.
"Pending revenue delta". Please point to where that says $50MM? As I've said before, "The numbers change, the comments remain the same."
But that is supposed to be "trolling", like thinking clemson will be in a different conference in a few years. You have an odd definition of "trolling".
Jumping into the argument between @Maxcy and @Lurker123 for fun.
The problem if Clemson moves to the SEC is even if Clemson goes 9-3 every year, they're probably making the CFP anyway with the coming expansion. They will be raking in massive dollar figures that they've never dreamed about in the ACC. Combining SEC prestige and dollars with the Clemson football cult is a really bad combination. In the short term they might take a step back, but my guess is they'd quickly figure things out and the harder schedule wouldn't be much of a factor after several years.
If Clemson is forced to stay in the ACC, they may continue to win 10-11 games every year and get into the playoff in the short term. But slowly, the massive revenue differentials between Clemson and the SEC/B1G schools will make a difference. The huge spending projects that will be possible for SEC schools won't be possible for Clemson, and the gap will widen. Recruiting will suffer, the ability to attract and pay top coaches will suffer. I see it as a long-term withering, where the lack of (comparative) funds slowly becomes a bigger and bigger weight holding them back.
Summary of my opinion
Ultimately, over the next decade+, the SEC money may not make Carolina a winner, but the lack of SEC money will make Clemson's ability to stay in the upper echelons of the sport extremely difficult.
The problem if Clemson moves to the SEC is even if Clemson goes 9-3 every year, they're probably making the CFP anyway with the coming expansion. They will be raking in massive dollar figures that they've never dreamed about in the ACC. Combining SEC prestige and dollars with the Clemson football cult is a really bad combination. In the short term they might take a step back, but my guess is they'd quickly figure things out and the harder schedule wouldn't be much of a factor after several years.
If Clemson is forced to stay in the ACC, they may continue to win 10-11 games every year and get into the playoff in the short term. But slowly, the massive revenue differentials between Clemson and the SEC/B1G schools will make a difference. The huge spending projects that will be possible for SEC schools won't be possible for Clemson, and the gap will widen. Recruiting will suffer, the ability to attract and pay top coaches will suffer. I see it as a long-term withering, where the lack of (comparative) funds slowly becomes a bigger and bigger weight holding them back.
Summary of my opinion
Ultimately, over the next decade+, the SEC money may not make Carolina a winner, but the lack of SEC money will make Clemson's ability to stay in the upper echelons of the sport extremely difficult.
I miss ACC basketball from our last years in the league.
Except that having your biggest rival as a fellow conference member makes the rivalry matter more.
Good points, and could easily happen.
I think a bit differently, obviously. I see Clemson taking a large step back these last couple of years. I don't think they'd be 9-3 either of those years, and I question of they could sustain that in the SEC even if they bounce back.
If they were 3rd or so in one half the SEC, they'd be the 5th or 6th SEC team, and borderline playoffs. Imo
I do think the SEC money will help them, but they can't compete with other teams' NIL, and that would settle them at around the middle of the pack, imo.
That depends on the added value to the league two more (specific) members (and I state this while emphatically believing that 12 members per conference is more than enough, and 8 is ideal) bring to the table.
My thoughts have been it matters not what I want. re: clemson in the SEC. I suspect it does not matter what the BOT wants either. The question is does SEC membership help clemson's football program significantly? I'm not convinced it will. I suspect that clemson's other programs are shortchanged so that football gets all the money it needs.
Clemson, under Dabo, has always recruited well. I don't see that changing in the ACC as long as their other programs are being shortchanged. And part of the reason is that clemson is perceived as a SEC program playing in the ACC So, I see very little changing with clemson in the SEC,
What I see changing for clemson is the competition. Right now their recruiting is ranked 2nd in the ACC. In the SEC, counting Florida State, they would be 8th. They may win 8 or 9 games a year in the SEC, maybe less. Who really KNOWS? But after winning 10-12 games a year just about every year and a couple of national championships, their fans will be bit_hing, whining and moaning if they are not winning 10-11 games per year like they have been in the ACC. Once in the SEC, those days will be OVER for them, IMHO.
The bottom line is I'm not worried about it. It is out of my hands. Besides, what are they going to accomplish in the SEC.....win a conference championship, a national championship and beat us 7 times in a row. Oops....that's right....they've already done that.
Clemson, under Dabo, has always recruited well. I don't see that changing in the ACC as long as their other programs are being shortchanged. And part of the reason is that clemson is perceived as a SEC program playing in the ACC So, I see very little changing with clemson in the SEC,
What I see changing for clemson is the competition. Right now their recruiting is ranked 2nd in the ACC. In the SEC, counting Florida State, they would be 8th. They may win 8 or 9 games a year in the SEC, maybe less. Who really KNOWS? But after winning 10-12 games a year just about every year and a couple of national championships, their fans will be bit_hing, whining and moaning if they are not winning 10-11 games per year like they have been in the ACC. Once in the SEC, those days will be OVER for them, IMHO.
The bottom line is I'm not worried about it. It is out of my hands. Besides, what are they going to accomplish in the SEC.....win a conference championship, a national championship and beat us 7 times in a row. Oops....that's right....they've already done that.
Thanks.
I'm just trying to be realistic. I believe Clemson would turn their men's basketball program into the equivalent of a club sport before letting their football program go financially lacking. Where there's a will, there's a way.
Are Florida Gator fans worried about FSU to the SEC? I just believe the concern/worries are overblown. I really, really do.
True. I also find the prospect of listening to the gnashing of teeth when losses build up very enticing. And the first time one of them says anything about a tough schedule, I will laugh mightily.
It's not a great comparison, since Clemson has been on the top 3/4 programs in college football the last decade. FSU on the other hand has been a complete disaster since they lost to Oregon in the Rose Bowl outside of last year. I doubt Gator fans are worried about it, but I would imagine they'd prefer FSU to stay in the ACC and maintain that financial advantage that's coming in the next few years.
There's a reason FSU and Clemson are so worried about the ACC finances.
But, if joining the SEC would supercharge FSU's program, I would think Gator fans would be as worried as some Gamecock fans are about clemson joining the SEC and becoming the FSU of Bowden days. I just quickly glanced over at the Gator board and saw nothing about it. Maybe I'm just missing something on the issue. But like I said, I believe clemson would starve their other men's sports before allowing their football program to lack financial resources. The only sport clemson fans care about is football. Consequently, it won't surprise you for me to say I think that Clemson joining the SEC would be a much bigger boost to their non-football sports. A part of me would laugh at clemson fans if they don't get in because I know they'd rather go watch the Tennessees at DV than the Dukes. In the end, I don't believe it matters what any of us think. The boys in Birmingham will do what they want.
Last edited:
This is the truth.
And ultimately it comes down to money...what will maximize SEC revenue and maximize the payout to each SEC school? Whatever the answer to that question is will be what they do.
Even further back than that...the late mid to late 80's with Mike Hogwood...I miss Jim Lampley from ABC eventhough he was a UNC homer.
I liked listening to the late Jim Phillips from the Clemson Sports Network too...Larry Munson from UGA...
I even listed to Woody Durham on the Tarheel Sports Network while pulling against the Heels.
In the early 80's, you got the ABC game of the week with Lampley...late 80s is when ESPN and bigtime college football played from Noon til Midnight.
What about all sports not named football? They matter as well. And while football will (sadly, IMO) remain king at all schools, they will not neglect other sports. SEC schools do care about baseball, and were Clemron & F$U to join the SEC, they dare not let baseball (among other sports) slip.
Last edited:
Maximizing prestige and clout come first; the money will follow in short order.
I did say to will110 "I think that Clemson joining the SEC would be a much bigger boost to their non-football sports".
Which is why I believe any expansion will focus on a UNC and UVA instead of CU or FSU. Only so many schools from a conference can appear in the football playoffs and the SEC and B1G have plenty of those. That’s all that CU and FSU really have to offer. UNC and UVA offer more than just football…they are better than average in football and have shown the ability to improve and they have success in other sports as well….same applies to a lesser extent to NCSU and VaTech.