Sankey Needs to Have His Next Move Plotted, In Case...

[18IsTheMan]

Well, one not-so-minor hurdle to conference merging is what to do about the name. The SEC, formed in 1933, surely doesn't want to give up the name. SEC is a brand name in and of itself. The ACC, while not quite as old, still fancies itself a power and would never consider taking on the SEC name. I could see the ACC being willing to come up with a new name altogether for a merged conference, but I don't see the SEC being willing to part with their name. SEC is synonymous with college football.

 

[KingWard]

I guess the fake classes at UNC has been forgotten.

They did their time. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wl...l-sanctioned-for-academic-fraud/101-234993214

 

[Rogue Cock]

I guess the fake classes at UNC has been forgotten.

Pretty much. Cost them a year probation from the SACS...and damaged their rep a bit among academic circles, but no one else paid attention. They quickly recovered.

 

[KingWard]

Well, one not-so-minor hurdle to conference merging is what to do about the name. The SEC, formed in 1933, surely doesn't want to give up the name. SEC is a brand name in and of itself. The ACC, while not quite as old, still fancies itself a power and would never consider taking on the SEC name. I could see the ACC being willing to come up with a new name altogether for a merged conference, but I don't see the SEC being willing to part with their name. SEC is synonymous with college football.

They'll change their name for enough money. Remember, The ACC schools would be in the subordinate position and Boston College ain't gonna have no hand in this, if it ever happens.

 

[18IsTheMan]

They'll change their name for enough money. Remember, The ACC schools would be in the subordinate position and Boston College ain't gonna have no hand in this, if it ever happens.

There is actually more noise/suggestion in recent days of an ACC/Pac-12 merger, dubbed "The Coastal Conference."

 

[Rogue Cock]

They did their time. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wl...l-sanctioned-for-academic-fraud/101-234993214

And therein lies the power of the UNC brand that you mentioned. Some lesser schools may have recieved much worse punishment from SACS.

 

[Rogue Cock]

There is actually more noise/suggestion in recent days of an ACC/Pac-12 merger, dubbed "The Coastal Conference."

Interesting....but don't see how that makes sense for the remaining PAC-12 schools....one major conference that has a hold on the SW is sitting on their doorstep...and the other major conference is already sitting in the middle of their living room.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Interesting....but don't see how that makes sense for the remaining PAC-12 schools....one major conference that has a hold on the SW is sitting on their doorstep...and the other major conference is already sitting in the middle of their living room.

Yeah, none of this stuff makes sense to me anyway.

The Pac 12’s Leadership Needs To Ink A New Media Deal Then Start ACC Merger Talks.

Now Pac-12 commissioner George Kliavkoff goal is to work with Amazon, ESPN, and a few potential mystery partners in the hopes of beating the Big 12 deal done with Fox and ESPN that pays about $31.7 million per school for the next six years.

www.forbes.com

Another name floated is the APAC (Atlantic Pacific Athletic Conference)

 

[gamecock stock]

There is actually more noise/suggestion in recent days of an ACC/Pac-12 merger, dubbed "The Coastal Conference."

I could see the SEC making a move to screw that up by inviting enough ACC schools to invalidate the GOR.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I could see the SEC making a move to screw that up by inviting enough ACC schools to invalidate the GOR.

I don’t know that there’s actually any such provision for invalidating the GOR. I find it hard to believe the ACC would have included such a condition.

 

[KingWard]

And therein lies the power of the UNC brand that you mentioned. Some lesser schools may have recieved much worse punishment from SACS.

Though not as large enrollment-wise, they are on a level with Ohio State or Texas as an institution.

 

[KingWard]

There is actually more noise/suggestion in recent days of an ACC/Pac-12 merger, dubbed "The Coastal Conference."

And it's plausible, but very unwieldy. Plus, there still would not be the earning potential.

 

[atl-cock]

An alliance makes more sense to me than a merger.

 

[Lurker123]

I don’t know that there’s actually any such provision for invalidating the GOR. I find it hard to believe the ACC would have included such a condition.

Back when this was a hot topic, I saw an article discussing the idea that 2/3 or 3/4 of the teams would have to leave in order to render the GOR moot. The idea at the time was that it was possible ig both the SEC and B10 raided the conference at the same time.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

I have long felt that UNC and either VA or VT make all the sense in the world.

Good schools but lack the "national branding" that the B1G is looking for at this time, if the SEC is looking to be preemptive (and they should)
it would be a good move, but not big enough.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

Back when this was a hot topic, I saw an article discussing the idea that 2/3 or 3/4 of the teams would have to leave in order to render the GOR moot. The idea at the time was that it was possible ig both the SEC and B10 raided the conference at the same time.

Think in terms of 3 schools with national branding forcing the issue.

 

[Prestonyte]

UPC, Fla St and Miami consider their ACC counterparts to be under performers.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

UPC, Fla St and Miami consider their ACC counterparts to be under performers.

Respectfully, but I can tell you that one of those schools you mentioned does not have the mindset that they are under performers (and this is not coming from a fan base, but from an administrative source), but do lack a National Branding that they posses.

College football's 25 biggest brands in 2022, ranked​

https://247sports.com/LongFormArtic...brands-in-2022-ranked-190591771/#190591771_11

 

[KingWard]

Respectfully, but I can tell you that one of those schools you mentioned does not have the mindset that they are under performers (and this is not coming from a fan base, but from an administrative source), but do lack a National Branding that they posses.

College football's 25 biggest brands in 2022, ranked​

https://247sports.com/LongFormArtic...brands-in-2022-ranked-190591771/#190591771_11

I think that listing might be a little subjective, and of course, it is football driven. As for the overall brand strength, there are useful measurables available.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

I think that listing might be a little subjective, and of course, it is football driven. As for the overall brand strength, there are useful measurables available.

The list I provided was not meant to unequivocal, but as a reference as to where the schools National Branding is considered.
With 1 or 2 exceptions I would expect most listings would be very similar.

 

[KingWard]

The list I provided was not meant to unequivocal, but as a reference as to where the schools National Branding is considered.
With 1 or 2 exceptions I would expect most listings would be very similar.

I look at licensed apparel sales. Among the ACC schools, UNC fares a lot better in that matrix. It reflects people's perception of the overall program.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

I look at licensed apparel sales. Among the ACC schools, UNC fares a lot better in that matrix. It reflects people's perception of the overall program.

There is more at play going on here, it will be more than just one school.

 

[KingWard]

There is more at play going on here, it will be more than just one school.

Not disputing that. I'm asserting that, if any are targeted by the B1G, I think UNC will be most favored. They are the best comprehensive program in the ACC. They are a big brand and a prestigious school. They are also in territory contiguous to the SEC footprint. For that reason, The SEC should prioritize them over UPC or FSU. If this were to involve multiple ACC teams, make SURE one of them is UNC.

 

[Mauze1]

...the Pac 12 cannot get a decent TV package together, the Big 12 nabs the Arizona schools plus Colorado and Utah, AND Oregon and Washington wind up on the Big 10. All of these things are plausible. Stankey can't let the Big 10 become more valuable than the SEC. Sankey needs a counterpunch at the ready, UNLESS he intends to mount a preemptive first strike. Don't be naive. More schools means more value long term - if they are the right schools.

I have to wonder if bringing more teams is the way to go. I realize TV markets are important, but the more we split up the money the less the pot becomes per team. It will be interesting to see how the distances are handled in the new Big10.

Some of you might remember when SEC teams didn’t play each other frequently. They mostly played 7 conference games or less. Because of that, SEC teams often played each other in bowl games. With 18 teams I don’t think FSU or Clemson will have as big an effect as a UNC or UVA would have, (NC State or VPI) from a TV market perspective.

 

[KingWard]

I have to wonder if bringing more teams is the way to go. I realize TV markets are important, but the more we split up the money the less the pot becomes per team. It will be interesting to see how the distances are handled in the new Big10.

Some of you might remember when SEC teams didn’t play each other frequently. They mostly played 7 conference games or less. Because of that, SEC teams often played each other in bowl games. With 18 teams I don’t think FSU or Clemson will have as big an effect as a UNC or UVA would have, (NC State or VPI) from a TV market perspective.

The price of everything is going up and more product in new markets means more money in subsequent deals.

 

[Prestonyte]

Respectfully, but I can tell you that one of those schools you mentioned does not have the mindset that they are under performers (and this is not coming from a fan base, but from an administrative source), but do lack a National Branding that they posses.

College football's 25 biggest brands in 2022, ranked​

https://247sports.com/LongFormArtic...brands-in-2022-ranked-190591771/#190591771_11

UPC, Fla St and Miami consider their ACC counterparts to be under performers.

Not themselves, "their ACC counterparts"

 

[Mauze1]

If what King Ward said was to happen, I could see both the SEC and ACC decide to merge into one league. These kinds of things happen all the time in the business world to the surprise.....to the shock of Wall Street.....out of the blue. And college sports is a business.....a big business. If the SEC and ACC determined it was in their financial best interest to merge, they'd do it, with the approval of the tv boys, of course.. If it happened, forming a league stretching from the southwest, touching the midwest, through the southeast and all the way up the eastern seaboard, it would be a league unrivaled. It would be a league combining the best in college football and college basketball. Often when mergers happen, they happen with discussions in secret, out of daylight. I'm not saying it will happen. I am saying that we don't know what we don't know.

Sort of doubt the SEC would want the northeastern schools. The idea of four voting blocks from NC might be a stumbling block too. We can see what it has done to the ACC. Would a TV contract offset the losses of revenue which would occur by dividing the pot by 32 teams? I doubt it.

 

[Mauze1]

UNC is the biggest all-sports brand in the ACC and it's not even close.

Is that your opinion or did you get it from a reliable source? my take on UNC is, their biggest sport, Bball, is not what it used to be. They are, at present, a good football program. Not excellent ,not above average, but good. They continue to get good talent, but their football compared to Clemson is not competitive and has not been in a long time, if ever. Most big universities with big football, receive the largest influx of money from their football programs. Think about that. More money than from any other source. Where else can a school receive 54 million in one lump sum? No where. also, keep in mind UNC still makes more off their football program than basketball.

 

[KingWard]

Is that your opinion or did you get it from a reliable source? my take on UNC is, their biggest sport, Bball, is not what it used to be. They are, at present, a good football program. Not excellent ,not above average, but good. They continue to get good talent, but their football compared to Clemson is not competitive and has not been in a long time, if ever. Most big universities with big football, receive the largest influx of money from their football programs. Think about that. More money than from any other source. Where else can a school receive 54 million in one lump sum? No where. also, keep in mind UNC still makes more off their football program than basketball.

What School Sells the Most College Merchandise?

LSU comes in sixth on the list

1033thegoat.com

While not new, this is the way the apparel sales have been running. It's a prime indicator of brand value because it washes out all distinction between sports. You'll notice that North Carolina was the only ACC school in the top 10. I did see one listing from nine years ago where FSU was two places higher than UNC, but that was the exception rather than the rule. Licensed apparel sales are about nothing but brand. There is no better indicator.

 

[KingWard]

This article, out today, seems more than theoretical. It implies that the Big 10 is in active pursuit of particular schools. It's the kind of thing the SEC won't be able to ignore if it comes to fruition. https://www.si.com/fannation/colleg...ll-expansion-big-ten-targeting-pac-12-schools

 

[atl-cock]

Is that your opinion or did you get it from a reliable source? my take on UNC is, their biggest sport, Bball, is not what it used to be. They are, at present, a good football program. Not excellent ,not above average, but good. They continue to get good talent, but their football compared to Clemson is not competitive and has not been in a long time, if ever. Most big universities with big football, receive the largest influx of money from their football programs. Think about that. More money than from any other source. Where else can a school receive 54 million in one lump sum? No where. also, keep in mind UNC still makes more off their football program than basketball.

How many varsity sports does UnCarolina sponsor? Far more than most, I think. That should add some value.

 

[HillsToSea]

How many varsity sports does UnCarolina sponsor? Far more than most, I think. That should add some value.

What are the sports they sponsor that others don’t?

 

[atl-cock]

What are the sports they sponsor that others don’t?

Here's what they do sponsor:

 

[HillsToSea]

Here's what they do sponsor:

View attachment 313871

With ad Exception or two, same as others. No “by far”. Some schools have just as much. UNC doesn’t stand out

 

[atl-cock]

With ad Exception or two, same as others. No “by far”. Some schools have just as much. UNC doesn’t stand out

Fencing and wrestling stand out to me. I think UCLA sponsors more varsity sports than anybody else in the country. And men's volleyball stands out.

 

[HillsToSea]

I can’t see a school being disqualified from joining another conference because they don’t have a couple of obscure sports. Makes no sense to me

 

[KingWard]

With ad Exception or two, same as others. No “by far”. Some schools have just as much. UNC doesn’t stand out

They stand out. If the ACC caves, you'll see the big suitors call early and not late..

 

[atl-cock]

I can’t see a school being disqualified from joining another conference because they don’t have a couple of obscure sports. Makes no sense to me

Agreed. But sponsoring as many sports as they do does make them stand out in a positive way.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

I can’t see a school being disqualified from joining another conference because they don’t have a couple of obscure sports. Makes no sense to me

I do know that there are a certain amount team sports required to go from FCS to FBS, but I'm not sure if some schools are required to have a set amount of team sports to join a conference.
As a side note the B1G is the only conference where all 14 teams have wrestling.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

For all the pro vs con of UNC going somewhere, as an individual school they are not leaving the ACC.

The movement will not start until at the very least 3 teams decide to join forces to make a move as one. This way the GOR can be challenged with a more advantageous position, perhaps by creating the dissolution of the ACC.
No one team can or will leave individually due to financial liabilities, regardless of branding or apparel sales.