What’s the condition of the golf course you play on a regular basis?

Uscg1984

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Jan 28, 2022
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How long is your golf season up there?
Roughly six months, but the beginning and end are very spotty. Generally, April and October are "day-to-day" for most courses, but October snows don't melt off as quickly as April snows. May and September are generally golfable but both months will still have occasional snow closures and frequent morning frost delays.
 
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scbeachboy

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Feb 22, 2022
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I'm not a golfer but my best friend is a very good golfer and he keeps me informed of the state of the golf "industry". He says a major problem public (and some private) courses face is unrealistic expectations by golfers. Golfers watch tournaments on tv and see very expensive courses that have been coddled into near perfect tournament condition and they set that as their expectation of how all courses should look and play. Courses are astronomically expensive to maintain, even courses that are not in great shape are expensive to maintain. Labor costs alone can easily run into many hundreds of thousands of dollars a year at a small course. Equipment, fertilizer, pesticides, herbicides, carts, water (if a course doesn't have an adequate on site water supply), fuel for equipment, etc. all add up to make operating a golf course at any sort of profit a daunting task.

A private club with 500 members paying $600 a month in dues enjoys $3.6 million in revenue from dues alone every year. They also have revenue from food and beverage, pro shop sales and guest and cart fees. Even with those revenue streams, most private clubs are lucky to break even each year and frequently have to turn to assessments for capital improvements. Public courses rely on green fees, cart rental fees and what little clubhouse sales they can muster to try and show some sort of profit. I think it something of a minor miracle that any public courses are able to stay open.
As a retired golf professional this pretty much hits the nail on the head,
 
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KingWard

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As a retired golf professional this pretty much hits the nail on the head,
I had a golf course management person tell me the same thing. That big old asset is out there eating up resources whether the weather is fair of foul. It's hard to make money on a golfing operation.
 
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WendellGee

Joined Jan 1, 2022
Jan 23, 2022
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Lancaster Golf Club is in generally good condition, but several greens have been spot-treated with pre-emergent herbicide for some non-Bermuda grass. Hopefully, they will come around after the yearly aeration later this spring.
Probably post emergent. Pre em isn't going to touch weeds that are already present.
 
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KingWard

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If you have a period of bad weather, that revenue is gone forever. You can't make it back up.
That's essentially correct. Some people will play a round sooner or later in place of the one they originally intended to play on the rainy day, but the loss is unlikely to be close to offset.
 

Thunderstick

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All of the courses in SW Montana are still very much in early spring conditions. The greens are in good shape, but shaggier and slower than they will be in a month or so. The fairways are starting to green up, but morning lows are still sometimes in the 20s, so they are just now coming out of dormancy. Weather-wise, it's still hit or miss for golf. We hit the 60s over the weekend, but the highs tomorrow and Wednesday are forecasted to be 38 and 40. Then, by Friday and Saturday, we should be back into the upper 60s.
TL;DR
 

KingWard

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Probably post emergent. Pre em isn't going to touch weeds that are already present.
Could be; I just know the term that was used. This was at the end of the winter, before summer grasses started jumping, but I'm no agronomist. Maybe our greenskeeper isn't, either. We do have some noticeable encroachment issues. We are punching and sanding today and tomorrow, about three weeks earlier than usual.
 

Cockywilder

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Golf is for old men and rich white boys.
It’s no secret that golf is dominated by rich, white men ,likely because they’re the only demographic with personalities equipped to enjoy such an activity. Up until recently, I didn’t realize how much they control the industry.
 

KingWard

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It’s no secret that golf is dominated by rich, white men ,likely because they’re the only demographic with personalities equipped to enjoy such an activity. Up until recently, I didn’t realize how much they control the industry.
I'm a blue collar golfer who has played a good semi-private course since 1977. Moreover, I am surrounded by blue collar golfers.
 
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Big JC

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I'm a blue collar golfer who has played a good semi-private course since 1977. Moreover, I am surrounded by blue collar golfers.
There are a lot of blue collar golfers and a lot of courses tailored for them. They know the courses they play aren't going to be mistaken for the Augusta National. If all courses were kept to the standard of the high end courses, 90+% of them would go out of business because very few people would be able to afford to play on them.
 

KingWard

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There are a lot of blue collar golfers and a lot of courses tailored for them. They know the courses they play aren't going to be mistaken for the Augusta National. If all courses were kept to the standard of the high end courses, 90+% of them would go out of business because very few people would be able to afford to play on them.
People don't appreciate that, for every Quail Hollow, there are scores to hundreds of Fox Creeks.
 
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gamecox4982

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Played Wildwood in Northeast Columbia yesterday.
Not counting playing in Arizona this past February the greens were some of the best I’ve played and fairways were excellent. However, the traps are some of the worse I’ve seen outside of Cobblestone Park.
 

Uscg1984

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Old Works in Anaconda, MT was definitely in "spring conditions" shape on Friday. The greens were in good shape and fast, but the fairways have not had much summer growth at all. Anaconda got about 4-5 inches of snow on Thursday morning, but by Friday afternoon it was all melted off, so portions of the fairways were a bit wet, but not terrible. They were charging half-price because of the course conditions, but they really weren't that bad. Any time I can play a Jack Nicklaus course for $50, I'll consider it a bargain.
 
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KingWard

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Old Works in Anaconda, MT was definitely in "spring conditions" shape on Friday. The greens were in good shape and fast, but the fairways have not had much summer growth at all. Anaconda got about 4-5 inches of snow on Thursday morning, but by Friday afternoon it was all melted off, so portions of the fairways were a bit wet, but not terrible. They were charging half-price because of the course conditions, but they really weren't that bad. Any time I can play a Jack Nicklaus course for $50, I'll consider it a bargain.
That is a bargain. By and large, what kind of grasses do courses favor up there? I could see bent on the greens in a climate that cool, but what about fairways? Fescue? Bent? Zoysia? Something else?
 
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Cockywilder

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A LOT of courses, especially those designed in the late 90s during the golf course boom, are NOT playable for the majority of golfers. They were billed as “championship” type courses, which most women can’t play, most seniors can’t play, kids can’t play, and a small percentage of avid golfers can play, because they are far too difficult. (technically they “can” play them, but they cannot play them well and are quite discouraging for those players).
 

Cockywilder

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That is a bargain? By and large, what kind of grasses do courses favor up there. I could see bent on the greens in a climate that cool, but what about fairways? Fescue? Bent? Zoysia? Something else?
I have a different take, seeing players with varying abilities trying to play different courses.
 

KingWard

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I have a different take, seeing players with varying abilities trying to play different courses.
@Uscg1984 - I intended for the question mark in the "bargain" sentence to be a period, and the period in the sentence mentioning several grasses to be a question mark. $50 is a bargain to play a Nicklaus course. I was seeking information about the agronomy on Montana golf courses, not recommending they should be any particular way. I was propounding certain grasses that I know about. What they have up there might be entirely different, and I would find that interesting.
 

Uscg1984

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@Uscg1984 - I intended for the question mark in the "bargain" sentence to be a period, and the period in the sentence mentioning several grasses to be a question mark. $50 is a bargain to play a Nicklaus course. I was seeking information about the agronomy on Montana golf courses, not recommending they should be any particular way. I was propounding certain grasses that I know about. What they have up there might be entirely different, and I would find that interesting.
No worries, I assumed the question mark was a typo. I figured there wasnt any doubt a regular golfer such as yourself would know $50 was a bargain to play a Nicklaus course with a cart and unlimited range balls. That price also gets you access to a 3-hole practice course the Bear built around the range - excellent for settling a tie.

The fairway grasses are typically bluegrass, often with some fine fescue mixed in for the roughs. Greens are typically bentgrass. I know there are tons of different variations of all of those and a lot of new scientifically-designed strains that probably better cope with our climate than, say, midwestern bluegrass and bentgrass strains, but I dont know any details about that. I guess you could say I havent gotten that far "into the weeds" of golf course agronomy.

When vegetation does start growing around here, it grows fast. Our short growing season is partially mitigated by nearly 18 hours of daylight in mid-to-late June.
 
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31 Flavors

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Golf will continue "right-sizing" until the supply and demand reach equilibrium. The "Tiger boom" from the late '90s to about 15 years ago got a lot of late Boomers and Gen-Xers (across racial lines, significantly) into the game. New courses were built. Eighteen-hole courses added a third nine. Courses that were languishing and would have gone under got a bump.

Trends since then:
1. Steady to runaway inflation affecting both overhead and discretionary spending.
2. Sloooowwwwwww play (modeled by big-name players, unfortunately).
3. Top Golf.
4. Indifference to sports in general, and especially to less kinetic sports like baseball and golf, among Millennials and Gen-Zs.
 

golffan

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Fox Run in Ft Inn looks great and many improvements are taking place. It is private but you can play with a member and we host member guest tourneys all the time. Our clubhouse has an excellent restaurant that is very affordable. Just like to give our pros and grounds crew a special thank you! David Fels, you run a great club!
 
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KingWard

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Golf will continue "right-sizing" until the supply and demand reach equilibrium. The "Tiger boom" from the late '90s to about 15 years ago got a lot of late Boomers and Gen-Xers (across racial lines, significantly) into the game. New courses were built. Eighteen-hole courses added a third nine. Courses that were languishing and would have gone under got a bump.

Trends since then:
1. Steady to runaway inflation affecting both overhead and discretionary spending.
2. Sloooowwwwwww play (modeled by big-name players, unfortunately).
3. Top Golf.
4. Indifference to sports in general, and especially to less kinetic sports like baseball and golf, among Millennials and Gen-Zs.
I would noticed a pretty sizable bump due to Covid. Golf courses were open when not much else was, and lots of people come on board. I witnessed it myself. Courses were crowded while restaurants and other businesses deemed non-essential languished. Lots of those people are still playing and account for much of the obvious increase in walking for the sake of fitness and economy.
 
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ZeppelinCock

Joined Jan 25, 2006
Jan 17, 2022
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Dunes Club , too good of condition and now too hard to play lol. JK but REALLY pristine atm, but damn the already hard greens are profanity laden tyrades now
 

Hoganman1

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I’m a member of Myers Park in Charlotte and our course is in perfect condition. Our superintendent is the best. The only problem is since Covid the course is too crowded.
 
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PawleysRooster

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I would noticed a pretty sizable bump due to Covid. Golf courses were open when not much else was, and lots of people come on board. I witnessed it myself. Courses were crowded while restaurants and other businesses deemed non-essential languished. Lots of those people are still playing and account for much of the obvious increase in walking for the sake of fitness and economy.
This is correct. Covid was the best thing that happened to golf. We just had our most profitable year ever at the 30 year old course where I work.
 
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bayrooster

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The Charleston municipal golf course in John's Island looks well maintained.
 

KingWard

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The Charleston municipal golf course in John's Island looks well maintained.
My brother is a member there and he would co-sign that. It should be mentioned that they had a major refurbishing a couple of years ago.
 

KingWard

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I’m a member of Myers Park in Charlotte and our course is in perfect condition. Our superintendent is the best. The only problem is since Covid the course is too crowded.
Not ordinarily the norm on a private course such as that one.
Dunes Club , too good of condition and now too hard to play lol. JK but REALLY pristine atm, but damn the already hard greens are profanity laden tyrades now
The results of becoming a tour venue.
 

Personalfowl

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Have you played Hickory Knob before? It's typically in decent condition, but I haven't been there in a couple years. Layout wise I've never thought it very special.
I used to love Hickory Knob, but I played it about a year ago and it was pretty bad. “Furry” greens, and poor all around condition. Looking at the lake, 10 or more feet below a reasonable level, did not enhance my experience. I live in Aiken, and am not gonna drive that far for an underwhelming course.
 
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Personalfowl

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I haven't played in so dang long........ Condition? Heck, most of the courses I used to enjoy playing are flat out closed up? Cooper's Creek (been closed a long time), Bogeyville (between Batesburg and Aiken), Indian Trail (Batesburg).....
Loved Cooper Creek and Bogeyville! I moved to Florida for 25 years, and was disappointed when I moved back to Aiken that both are now closed.
 
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Personalfowl

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I live in Aiken, and only play the public courses. Not a member anywhere.
Aiken Golf Club-greens are in good shape and fast as hell,Fairways-good, Bunkers-you never know from one to the next Overall, a great value and a really fun layout. 7/10
Houndslake-greens-weedy, Fairways-decent, bunkers-crapshoot from one to the next. 5/10
Mount Vintage-very well maintained all around 8/10
Cedar Creek-needs some help 6/10
Midland Valley-needs some help 5/10
If you have a connection and can play at Woodside Plantation or Palmetto, both are usually pristine.
Waiting for an invite to Sage Valley! LOL
 
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