2022-23 PSU MBB Thread

[PSUFTG]

Since I’m an idiot, here are questions:

We saw Neeli and Kraft were at the wrestling national championship while the basketball team was playing in the tourney. Did Micah see basketball ranking behind wrestling at PSU (atypical in the college sports strata), and did this add to any possible frustration he might have felt?

Penn State Admins were bouncing back and forth between the venues all week - and very visible vav photo ops and media coverage.

Frankly - aside from Pat Kraft - I would rather see the administration focus on dealing with the issues facing the University as much as possible (not that there is anything wrong with taking in a ball game or two - and maybe doing some networking at such events).

So, to your specific question, I think it is safe to say "no".

In a broader sense, the fact the Basketball, clearly, just isn't a "big deal" to all that many Penn Staters (meaning alums, fans, the local community, folks who would maybe buy tickets and 'care")? Sure, that, from Micah's own words, is a HUGE part of why he is now in South Bend. It is probably safe to say that that issue, and "going home", are 99% of why he isn't here any longer (unless Micah was just blowing smoke when interviewed about it).
It certainly isn't $$$ (PSU, clearly, paid him way more than he could have reasonably defended - as a first time head coach - when they signed him two years ago, and, based on all informed reports, offered way more than one could reasonably expect - based on his two years here - just this month).

Micah benefitted - tremendously - from his 2 year interaction with Penn State. Tremendously. I cannot imagine he would harbor even the slightest trace of any "ill will" wrt any aspect of his time here.
Penn State basketball? It is now in a tougher spot than it was 2 years ago, which is saying something (and a MUCH, MUCH tougher spot than it was 3 years ago). That, I don't think, is Micah's fault. Just the way it is.

Pat Kraft certainly has some tough challenges to address.
Blaming him, or anyone else in PSU admin, for Micah leaving is just perplexing.

If someone wants to get all "angsty", look at those who took a program - 3 years ago - that was in much better shape than where we were 3 weeks ago - and burned it to the ground. That wasn't Pat Kraft or Dr Bendapudi.

 

[HarrisburgDave]

Without knowing the details of the competing offers it's impossible to judge Kraft.

This is the real world of competition and not some local under 12 soccer league where you get a trophy, win or lose. “You did your best, now let’s get ice cream.”

Kraft failed. To use a popular term nowadays, we have a binary w/l answer. He lost.

It is undeniable that a program that was limping along a few days ago is now dead in the water.

Now it’s time to earn that paycheck Mr Kraft. Life is not fair.

 

[GrimReaper]

This is the real world of competition and not some local under 12 soccer league where you get a trophy, win or lose. “You did your best, now let’s get ice cream.”

Kraft failed. To use a popular term nowadays, we have a binary w/l answer. He lost.

It is undeniable that a program that was limping along a few days ago is now dead in the water.

Now it’s time to earn that paycheck Mr Kraft. Life is not fair.

Reports are the Shrewsberry's deal with ND is $4mm p.a. for seven years. That comp puts him in a league with others who have been head coaches for longer and are considerably more accomplished. How much more would PSU need to offer to retain him? But I guess in your binary world overpaying for an unproven commodity constitutes a "win."

 

[WVilleLion]

Reports are the Shrewsberry's deal with ND is $4mm p.a. for seven years. That comp puts him in a league with others who have been head coaches for longer and are considerably more accomplished. How much more would PSU need to offer to retain him? But I guess in your binary world overpaying for an unproven commodity constitutes a "win."

Harrisburg Dumbass at it again. Don’t waste your effort on him.

 

[HarrisburgDave]

Reports are the Shrewsberry's deal with ND is $4mm p.a. for seven years. That comp puts him in a league with others who have been head coaches for longer and are considerably more accomplished. How much more would PSU need to offer to retain him? But I guess in your binary world overpaying for an unproven commodity constitutes a "win."

Kraft has been there since 7/1/22. How long do you give a guy to get NIL addressed?

Overpaying? It seems that’s what he earns in this market?

We paid a football coach a huge increase after two of the worst seasons in the teams history. This guy does what we almost never do and we lose out in a bidding contest.

Now they are dead as a door nail facing a hiring process, competing wages for other quality coaches and a team needing to replace a ton of players and recruits..

All Krafts fault? No. But his title gives him the responsibility. He failed.

 

[Moogy]

Is the sky blue in your world?

Your post makes no sense. That's my fantastical desire, not what I think is going to happen. Oy.

 

[Moogy]

Lundy's gone. D. Johnson and Dorsey in the portal. Anyone else in the portal/decommitting?

 

[GrimReaper]

Kraft has been there since 7/1/22. How long do you give a guy to get NIL addressed?

Overpaying? It seems that’s what he earns in this market?

We paid a football coach a huge increase after two of the worst seasons in the teams history. This guy does what we almost never do and we lose out in a bidding contest.

Now they are dead as a door nail facing a hiring process, competing wages for other quality coaches and a team needing to replace a ton of players and recruits..

All Krafts fault? No. But his title gives him the responsibility. He failed.

Yeah, he's getting more than Scott Drew who has been a HC for more than 20 years, has made the Dance 11 times and has won a natty. He's also being paid more than Matt Painter........ among others.

 

[BobPSU92]

But I guess in your binary world overpaying for an unproven commodity constitutes a "win."

We Are…Penn State!

 

[GrimReaper]

We Are…Penn State!

Where you win just by showing up.

 

[rudedude]

A huge issue, as I see it, is how many folks are willing to travel to BJC for home games, especially during the week? Football has 7 designated days/weekends for games, while basketball has many more home dates. Recently, there have been not too many games on weekends. I have gone to games in past years at home and have attended all three Palestra games. It may be very difficult for fans to get to weekday games due to distance traveled. Have studies been done about the average basketball attendee’s travel distance for a game? How many season ticket holders are there for basketball? Where do they live? How many games do they go to? All valid questions. We used to have hockey season tickets, but gave them up as we eventually wound up eating too many of them due to Penn State capping resale values plus distance to get to games. This is the ultimate elephant in the room in regards to revenue generation for basketball. I’d love to get to more games but a 5 hour round trip is not ideal during winter months.

 

[Bison13]

A huge issue, as I see it, is how many folks are willing to travel to BJC for home games, especially during the week? Football has 7 designated days/weekends for games, while basketball has many more home dates. Recently, there have been not too many games on weekends. I have gone to games in past years at home and have attended all three Palestra games. It may be very difficult for fans to get to weekday games due to distance traveled. Have studies been done about the average basketball attendee’s travel distance for a game? How many season ticket holders are there for basketball? Where do they live? How many games do they go to? All valid questions. We used to have hockey season tickets, but gave them up as we eventually wound up eating too many of them due to Penn State capping resale values plus distance to get to games. This is the ultimate elephant in the room in regards to revenue generation for basketball. I’d love to get to more games but a 5 hour round trip is not ideal during winter months.

My issue as well. I go up to one of their out of conference games over the Christmas break but unless it’s off Saturday evening or Sunday at noon tip, there’s no other way I can get to a game. I know the conference can’t schedule them all Saturday home games but they’ve got to do a better job of getting the students and surrounding community members to the games.

 

[Ludd]

Kraft has been there since 7/1/22. How long do you give a guy to get NIL addressed?

Overpaying? It seems that’s what he earns in this market?

We paid a football coach a huge increase after two of the worst seasons in the teams history. This guy does what we almost never do and we lose out in a bidding contest.

Now they are dead as a door nail facing a hiring process, competing wages for other quality coaches and a team needing to replace a ton of players and recruits..

All Krafts fault? No. But his title gives him the responsibility. He failed.

So if another school pays someone too much, it’s the AD’s job to beat that too much and pay even more? Um, I don’t think so.

 

[HarrisburgDave]

Yeah, he's getting more than Scott Drew who has been a HC for more than 20 years, has made the Dance 11 times and has won a natty. He's also being paid more than Matt Painter........ among others.

Drew needs an agent

 

[HarrisburgDave]

So if another school pays someone too much, it’s the AD’s job to beat that too much and pay even more? Um, I don’t think so.

Yes, If you want to keep him and avoid the total collapse of your program. How else do you explain Penn State paying a ransom to the current football coach?

Let me be clear. I fully support paying next to nothing, letting the program crumble and avoiding the competition involved in the new world of college athletics. I won’t have any expectations and it will be fine with me.

However, don’t ******** me with talk like Penn State has the support and commitment to compete in this current environment. If they do then The AD failed miserably. If he does not have the necessary resources to compete he failed due to that and others share in his failure.

You just can’t have it both ways in this disaster. Someone or some group has to be accountable for this dumpster fire.

 

[HarrisburgDave]

Your post makes no sense. That's my fantastical desire, not what I think is going to happen. Oy.

I understand it’s your desire. It’s psychotic.

 

[HarrisburgDave]

Harrisburg Dumbass at it again. Don’t waste your effort on him.

I’ll try to live with the crushing disappointment of your rejection.

 

[Hardslider33]

I’ll try to live with the crushing disappointment of your rejection.

I read your post, your last name hast to be Jones.

 

[Ludd]

Yes, If you want to keep him and avoid the total collapse of your program. How else do you explain Penn State paying a ransom to the current football coach?

Let me be clear. I fully support paying next to nothing, letting the program crumble and avoiding the competition involved in the new world of college athletics. I won’t have any expectations and it will be fine with me.

However, don’t ******** me with talk like Penn State has the support and commitment to compete in this current environment. If they do then The AD failed miserably. If he does not have the necessary resources to compete he failed due to that and others share in his failure.

You just can’t have it both ways in this disaster. Someone or some group has to be accountable for this dumpster fire.

If someone is willing to overpay a coach, it’s not the AD’s job to make a bigger mistake. No one knows at this point if Shrews is worth that much, but if he lays an egg at ND, will you come on here and post how brilliant Kraft was? Also, there are some situations that no AD is going to win….there may not have been a reasonable amount of money that Shrews would have taken to choose PSU over ND, so the AD may have had no chance. To call it a failure is a bit premature.

 

[HarrisburgDave]

I read your post, your last name hast to be Jones. View attachment 321499

Incapable of making a counter argument? Your response is childlike.

 

[Moogy]

I understand it’s your desire. It’s psychotic.

Considering the source, I'm perfectly fine with that. You should get back to kicking puppies.

 

[HarrisburgDave]

If someone is willing to overpay a coach, it’s not the AD’s job to make a bigger mistake. No one knows at this point if Shrews is worth that much, but if he lays an egg at ND, will you come on here and post how brilliant Kraft was? Also, there are some situations that no AD is going to win….there may not have been a reasonable amount of money that Shrews would have taken to choose PSU over ND, so the AD may have had no chance. To call it a failure is a bit premature.

I don’t care what Shrew does at ND. He did a tremendous job here. You guys who want to compete had best wake up and realize it comes at a cost.

The market spoke. He left.

He leaves behind a program in shambles. No coach, not enough players to field a team. A search needed for his replacement (at what cost for those who want to compete?) A lack of fan support. A need to build an NIL system to support a player acquisition program. Questionable University support. A DUMPSTER FIRE.

Paying him a competitive salary might have been the best and cheapest alternative if you wanted more than 8 wins next year.

Will you post on here next year if the team fails to repeat the accomplishments under Shrew?

 

[Ludd]

I don’t care what Shrew does at ND. He did a tremendous job here. You guys who want to compete had best wake up and realize it comes at a cost.

The market spoke. He left.

He leaves behind a program in shambles. No coach, not enough players to field a team. A search needed for his replacement (at what cost for those who want to compete?) A lack of fan support. A need to build an NIL system to support a player acquisition program. Questionable University support. A DUMPSTER FIRE.

Paying him a competitive salary might have been the best and cheapest alternative if you wanted more than 8 wins next year.

Will you post on here next year if the team fails to repeat the accomplishments under Shrew?

No because they wouldn’t have repeated the accomplishments of this year even if Shrews would have stayed. He did a good job this year, but let’s not oversell it. He was one loss away from ending up in the NIT and two losses away from not even making that. He did a tremendous job the last few weeks of the season, but prior to that it wasn’t even close to tremendous. An AD still has to make reasonable decisions and as I said before, there may have been no way they were going to keep him from going to ND.

 

[ILLINOISLION]

Let’s get real, he had an opportunity to get a good job in his home state where he has spent the vast majority of his entire life. Moving back to a town where he lived and coached before and close to his parents was the perfect opportunity for him.

I think he would have taken the job in South Bend no matter how much ND offered him…..and no amount of money offered by PSU would have kept him in State College.

Not everything for everybody is driven by money.

 

[BobPSU92]

Let’s get real, he had an opportunity to get a good job in his home state where he has spent the vast majority of his entire life. Moving back to a town where he lived and coached before and close to his parents was the perfect opportunity for him.

I think he would have taken the job in South Bend no matter how much ND offered him…..and no amount of money offered by PSU would have kept him in State College.

Not everything for everybody is driven by money.

But f*ck us just the same.

 

[LionbackerU]

 

[Hardslider33]

I expected that … sadly

40+ yrs of futility for a glimmer of hope. Now back to the abyss. Absolutely no excuse that PS can’t have a legitimate basketball team. This is a embarrassment for us alumni.

 

[johnmpsu]

Let’s get real, he had an opportunity to get a good job in his home state where he has spent the vast majority of his entire life. Moving back to a town where he lived and coached before and close to his parents was the perfect opportunity for him.

I think he would have taken the job in South Bend no matter how much ND offered him…..and no amount of money offered by PSU would have kept him in State College.

Not everything for everybody is driven by money.

When the money is equal what you say is true. When it's significantly different then it's all about the money. If ND offers him 4 mil for 7 years and psu offered 6 mil for 8 he would stay but that would be crazy if PSU did that. I think a 28 million commitment by ND is a mistake.

In the end, it's always about the money no matter what they say.

 

[ILLINOISLION]

When the money is equal what you say is true. When it's significantly different then it's all about the money. If ND offers him 4 mil for 7 years and psu offered 6 mil for 8 he would stay but that would be crazy if PSU did that. I think a 28 million commitment by ND is a mistake.

In the end, it's always about the money no matter what they say.

Respectfully disagree. It’s about the money for a majority of people, but certainly not for everyone.

 

[Moogy]

I don’t care what Shrew does at ND. He did a tremendous job here. You guys who want to compete had best wake up and realize it comes at a cost.

The market spoke. He left.

He leaves behind a program in shambles. No coach, not enough players to field a team. A search needed for his replacement (at what cost for those who want to compete?) A lack of fan support. A need to build an NIL system to support a player acquisition program. Questionable University support. A DUMPSTER FIRE.

Paying him a competitive salary might have been the best and cheapest alternative if you wanted more than 8 wins next year.

Will you post on here next year if the team fails to repeat the accomplishments under Shrew?

You were the one who was on here constantly attacking Franklin, bashing him relentlessly in the early portions of the Rutgers game when PSU was down ... talking about how Schiano (and other random coaches) can coach, but Franklin can't. And then by the time we destroyed them 55-10, you ran, and wouldn't come back to take your lashing. You're just an anti-PSU troll.

 

[fairgambit]

Respectfully disagree. It’s about the money for a majority of people, but certainly not for everyone.

I agree with you ILLINOIS. In 50 years of legal practice I've personally seen scores of situations, including some in sports, where the money was secondary to other issues clients considered more important. Location, perceived job satisfaction going forward, work environment, etc. A client recently turned down a career opportunity at nearly triple his salary because it would have required too much travel time away from his family. Not long ago I saw a pro athlete turn down a pay increase to stay in a city where he could be close to his aging parents. Hell, I've turned down big firm money over the years to continue my own law practice. My house is smaller but my career satisfaction is much greater.

 

[ILLINOISLION]

I agree with you ILLINOIS. In 50 years of legal practice I've personally seen scores of situations, including some in sports, where the money was secondary to other issues clients considered more important. Location, perceived job satisfaction going forward, work environment, etc. A client recently turned down a career opportunity at nearly triple his salary because it would have required too much travel time away from his family. Not long ago I saw a pro athlete turn down a pay increase to stay in a city where he could be close to his aging parents. Hell, I've turned down big firm money over the years to continue my own law practice. My house is smaller but my career satisfaction is much greater.

Fair, you nailed it, I agree 100%.

 

[johnmpsu]

I agree with you ILLINOIS. In 50 years of legal practice I've personally seen scores of situations, including some in sports, where the money was secondary to other issues clients considered more important. Location, perceived job satisfaction going forward, work environment, etc. A client recently turned down a career opportunity at nearly triple his salary because it would have required too much travel time away from his family. Not long ago I saw a pro athlete turn down a pay increase to stay in a city where he could be close to his aging parents. Hell, I've turned down big firm money over the years to continue my own law practice. My house is smaller but my

Sure but were the differences in the millions? I've also seen people take less money for those reasons and sometimes it works out or sometimes it's great until they start realizing that every job has its issues and it starts eating at them that they are working for less money than they could be.

Sorry but when the so called contracts are in the millions and the differences are huge then most everybody takes the money. Of course if the offer is 30 million vs 32 million it's pretty easy to say those other things matter. It's not hard to live on 30 million.

Sadly these days contracts and commitments don't seem to mean anything.

 

[fairgambit]

Sure but were the differences in the millions? I've also seen people take less money for those reasons and sometimes it works out or sometimes it's great until they start realizing that every job has its issues and it starts eating at them that they are working for less money than they could be.

Sorry but when the so called contracts are in the millions and the differences are huge then most everybody takes the money. Of course if the offer is 30 million vs 32 million it's pretty easy to say those other things matter. It's not hard to live on 30 million.

Sadly these days contracts and commitments don't seem to mean anything.

We will just disagree. I had a pro football player (family friend/non Steeler) ask, rhetorically, "how much money does a man need?". He could have easily commanded much more in free agency but chose to stay with his current team because he loves the city he is playing in and will make it his permanent home when his playing days are over. Beyond that, I think its easier to say no when the numbers are larger. If I make 20 million and I am happy with my current team/city, why should I jump at an extra 10 million? On the other hand, if I make 20 thousand and someone offers me an extra 30 thousand, I might be sorely tempted as that could substantially change my life. In any event, I must be off to bed. I have breakfast with an old friend in the morning. Interestingly enough, this guy is part owner of a minor league baseball team in another state and, a dozen years ago, suggested I also buy into the team. I seriously considered it but decided against it. Had I accepted his offer I would have doubled my money and eaten a lot of hot dogs. I don't regret my decision but my grandkids do.

 

[MacNit]

Respectfully disagree. It’s about the money for a majority of people, but certainly not for everyone.

Actually not even close…many surveys show it usually is not about the $.

 

[HarrisburgDave]

Sure but were the differences in the millions?

You can’t buy my loyalty and integrity, but for that kind of money you could sure rent it.

 

[Ludd]

Sure but were the differences in the millions? I've also seen people take less money for those reasons and sometimes it works out or sometimes it's great until they start realizing that every job has its issues and it starts eating at them that they are working for less money than they could be.

Sorry but when the so called contracts are in the millions and the differences are huge then most everybody takes the money. Of course if the offer is 30 million vs 32 million it's pretty easy to say those other things matter. It's not hard to live on 30 million.

Sadly these days contracts and commitments don't seem to mean anything.

Actually more money has a bigger effect on people making less money…if you offer someone who’s making $50k a job making $80k, they will likely take it. Not a lot of difference between $4 million and $6 million…someone making $4 can be very comfortable.

 

[johnmpsu]

Actually more money has a bigger effect on people making less money…if you offer someone who’s making $50k a job making $80k, they will likely take it. Not a lot of difference between $4 million and $6 million…someone making $4 can be very comfortable.

I agree and actually said that in my post.

 

[rudedude]

I know folks despise David Jones, but here
are some bits from his interview with Shrewsberry. Irregardless if NIL, folks blaming Jaypa and Lubrano and Kraft, he was always out of here at the first chance.

The Hoosier State is in his blood. Its state sport courses through his veins.

I remember saying to him that he was in a very different place now. That these people he’d be dealing with were not so infused with the love of his chosen sport.


Why, I asked, was he leaving after just getting PSU hoops rolling? After an unexpected NCAA tournament appearance, a stunning 17-point first-round win over Texas A&M, and a just as impressive 5-point loss to #2-seed Texas?



“At the end of the day, if things are even or close to even, the chance to go back to Indiana and coach one of the major programs in the state, it means so much to me. I’ve coached all over the state. And I understand the history of Notre Dame basketball. It was just a special opportunity.

“That means more to me. It means more to me than other people who may be from somewhere else.”

 

[Bkmtnittany1]

I know folks despise David Jones, but here
are some bits from his interview with Shrewsberry. Irregardless if NIL, folks blaming Jaypa and Lubrano and Kraft, he was always out of here at the first chance.

The Hoosier State is in his blood. Its state sport courses through his veins.

I remember saying to him that he was in a very different place now. That these people he’d be dealing with were not so infused with the love of his chosen sport.


Why, I asked, was he leaving after just getting PSU hoops rolling? After an unexpected NCAA tournament appearance, a stunning 17-point first-round win over Texas A&M, and a just as impressive 5-point loss to #2-seed Texas?



“At the end of the day, if things are even or close to even, the chance to go back to Indiana and coach one of the major programs in the state, it means so much to me. I’ve coached all over the state. And I understand the history of Notre Dame basketball. It was just a special opportunity.

“That means more to me. It means more to me than other people who may be from somewhere else.”

Jones left out, “And if somebody is dumb enough to give me 28 million, I am gonna be smart enough to take it!”