Maybe read more than one of my posts before you show your Pennsyltucky next time.
Cheers
OK- So tell me who you're going to hire
- Thread starter Nitt1300
- Start date
Maybe read more than one of my posts before you show your Pennsyltucky next time.
Cheers
To be fair, Kirby Smart wouldn't have clearly met those criteria to replace Richt.
That sure is a broad brush with which to paint everyone you disagree. This is hardly about a single loss. It's about record against OSU and UM, it's about road record against ranked teams and against top 10 teams overall over the course of a decade. So it's certainly unfair to try to pretend it's a bunch of fans overreacting to a single game.
Some of us think Penn State has everything necessary (facilities, history, fan support, recruiting territory) to compete for Big Ten and National Titles. Others do not. Falling into the first category hardly renders someone a twit.
James is a great coach. He's a great face of the program, and by all accounts, a great man. If a peak of 10-2 with losses to your best 2 opponents is all you want, he's perfect. And there's nothing wrong with fans who are happy with that, because there are obviously much worse situations and ample examples of where being unsatisfied with that can go terribly wrong. But there's also nothing wrong with fans who think the program is capable of more, and who think the point of competitive sports is to have the opportunity to win championships, and that Franklin will never be capable of that. Sure, it could result in regression, in fact, it's more likely than not. But if you're interested in titles, there's no other choice as Franklin has proven he's not the guy that can do that. That's logical, not emotional twititude.
Once upon a time a college football team who thought the “N” on their helmets stood for “knowledge” and whose fans weren’t happy with their head coach who won 67 and lost 27. The team and coach parted ways. The replacement coach went on to have a 19-19 record. The next coach was 16-31. The current coach, a Penn State grad, is in his first year and is 4-3.
Penn State’s head coach is 84-37. Let’s not trade a Bo Peloni for a Mike Riley.
Penn State’s head coach is 84-37. Let’s not trade a Bo Peloni for a Mike Riley.
There was a stretch from 1966 through 2002 where anyone who was there 5 years would either (a) play for a national title, (b) go undefeated, or (c) play for a team ranked #1 at some point in the season. You're selling things a bit short. You also skip some pretty huge seasons: '77-'78 they went 22-2 and played Alabama for the national title but you left that off? The '85 team also played for the national title, but you left that off. You have something of a point, but when you just leave off 2 years where they played in the national title game, it does a disservice to your argument.
Last edited:
Once upon a time a college football team who though the "G" on their helmets stood for "greatness" and whose fans weren't happy with their head coach who won 145 and lost 51 (.740 win % to Franklin's .694). The team and coach parted ways. The replacement coach went on to have an 88-15 record, with two national championships and current #1 ranking.
Penn State's head coach is 84-37. Let's trade a James Franklin for a Kirby Smart.
People in this thread continually say "yeah, but only these 4 teams have competed for titles, so most can't and we should be happy." But each of those teams that are competing was willing to risk what it took to get there. Bama went and got Saban. Georgia fired a very Franklinesque coach to hire Smart. Ohio State went and got Urban Meyer. The schools dominating that national title market didn't trip and fall into it. They determined good wasn't good enough, and they went for it. Of course it can go wrong when you do that, but just accepting Mark Richt means you'll never have more than Mark Richt. And those teams competing for titles decided they didn't want to just be Mark Richt, or James Franklin.
Yeah....that's it....you want to win more than others not throwing a hissy fit. I'm sure you really believe what you typed like it's not message board nonsense and you're really going to do something about it....or that I love it when they lose to tOSU or UM. Here is the actual reality of the situation. JF has this program firmly planted in the top 10, he's close but needs to get over the hump. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. He isn't getting fired so maybe you better hope some other school comes in and pulls him out of HV as the next HC will clearly just waltz in and take over the Big Ten. For all of you that want so much more(BS, everyone here wants a title) I don't see you doing anything but crying online about it.
For every Smart there is a Texas, Auburn, UF, FSU, Miami, USC, UCLA, Neb.....and ton of others that just want to win titles who have been cycling through coaches for decades now. Saying title or bust is cute and all, but what are you doing about it other than posting on a website? Are you leading the charge to make this change? How much do you really want change or are you just blowing off steam? I know the answer, but maybe it will hit you at some point too. I know....start an anti-NIL campaign so nobody gives, he cannot get recruits, and we'll get a new HC. That will really progress the program forward....or start donating to another school for his buyout. I mean it...up your game....get rid of this guy....PSU will just win title after title.
Last edited:
I just can't understand why people constantly settle for good enough. It didn't make sense to me when I was young and everyone encourage me to stay home and create a life that was "good enough".
Now as an adult, I look around and see people (especially Penn State fans) who are angry at the very suggestion that their fellow fans aren't happy with good enough. They throw out insults and accuse other people of being emotional when their own posts are nothing but pure emotion. They can't seem to confront facts and run away when anyone presents them.
Here's the reality. Coach James Franklin has been an excellent face of Penn State Football. He's positive, a tireless promotor, and has never embarrassed the program or the school with his words or his actions. Coach James Franklin is also a 10 win coach. He's been that for 10 years now and he's shown no sign whatsoever that he knows how to change that. In 10 years, he's won exactly one conference title. Please don't continue to pretend that care about title while tirelessly cheerleading a coach who has not delivered one. He's on the losing end of far too many high profile recruitments. His record on hiring coaches is mediocre at best. He is not going to wake up tomorrow morning and suddenly understand what he needs to do to get over the last hill.
As I continue to say, just come out and admit that 10-2 is good enough for you. Just be honest about it. Not everyone wants a crystal football. Penn State fans are more afraid of becoming Nebraska than they want that title.
Now as an adult, I look around and see people (especially Penn State fans) who are angry at the very suggestion that their fellow fans aren't happy with good enough. They throw out insults and accuse other people of being emotional when their own posts are nothing but pure emotion. They can't seem to confront facts and run away when anyone presents them.
Here's the reality. Coach James Franklin has been an excellent face of Penn State Football. He's positive, a tireless promotor, and has never embarrassed the program or the school with his words or his actions. Coach James Franklin is also a 10 win coach. He's been that for 10 years now and he's shown no sign whatsoever that he knows how to change that. In 10 years, he's won exactly one conference title. Please don't continue to pretend that care about title while tirelessly cheerleading a coach who has not delivered one. He's on the losing end of far too many high profile recruitments. His record on hiring coaches is mediocre at best. He is not going to wake up tomorrow morning and suddenly understand what he needs to do to get over the last hill.
As I continue to say, just come out and admit that 10-2 is good enough for you. Just be honest about it. Not everyone wants a crystal football. Penn State fans are more afraid of becoming Nebraska than they want that title.
If you're not settling, what are you doing about it? Others need help as clearly you have the plan. I'm sure it's a realistic sound plan...protest home games and not going in? Put some type of heat on Kraft? Let it out and maybe have that next can't miss HC ready to go for the new AD? Hell this thread is supposed to be a list of coaches ready to take PSU over the top, but that list isn't as long as I thought it would be.
Last edited:
Your continued ability to construct strawman arguments is frankly impressive.
No anonymous dipshit on a message board is going to have a plan. But you already knew that. What those "whiners" as I believe you called them want, is for someone in a position of power within the football program or athletic department to at least act like they have a plan to be better than they are now. You can continue to attack me and the others who scoff at the idea of Penn State excellence. You can continue to believe that people outside of the Penn State media bubble care about or respect the program. You can continue to buy the merch and the tickets and tailgate. If you get a certain amount of personal enjoyment out of that, then my hat is off to you.
Wait so it's just venting by "anonymous dip$h!ts" using your own words....got it. I thought there was some real teeth to this "we want to win more than you do" but I guess that isn't the case. It must suck to not really enjoy the sport anymore, but maybe those that don't like it should do something else. I'll still watch and pray for the very outside chance they win out. I think UM >>>> tOSU so it would be a pretty big upset, but you never know.
Last edited:
No, it's conversation. Which, by the way, almost never involves you. You seek out my posts out to comment on. I never seek out yours. You seem to go and find anyone who criticizes James Franklin and respond to them. The majority of us can carry on conversations without bleeding emotion and snark all over ourselves.
It is a conversation. Some of us think that PSU could be better, but realize that they are in a better spot then when Joe was forced out. They are winning more consistently. They are recruiting better. The work to the program and facilities is off of pause and that area is moving forward after sitting stale for a long time. They are in the top 10 and making NYD bowls. They just need to get over the hump and also realize that tOSU isn't going to just lay down and let that happen. Nor is UM. Sometimes saying fire the coach makes total sense....sometimes it doesn't.
I will flat out admit that and say yes that's exactly what I am afraid of becoming. And frankly the odds seem to favor the Nebraska's, UCLA's, Auburn's, FSU, TN (although both seem to be doing better but still how long?) FL, and Pitt's of the world.
I don't think we are angry but I think we or at least I want to see what happens in the next few years.
Is 10-2 or 11-1 with a shot at the playoffs really that bad? I mean compared to the other possibility?
And if you are going to turn everything upside down you better have someone good in mind.
I doubt they will need a 100,000+ stadium for a 10+ seasons of single digits wins (which is what Nebraska is currently).
Oh and about that pesky Stadium Reno...
The getting over the hump part is where we're not going to see eye to eye. James Franklin has been on the job for 10 years. There's not much to indicate that he knows how to get over that last hill before he sacks Rome.
I'm going to compare him to another coach who used to coach for my other favorite team. James Franklin is Brian Kelly. He's going to win, recruit somewhere between 8-15, and get you to bowl. But when the big games come around, he's going to lose. Notre Dame got bailed out because Kelly left. Penn State, on the other hand, is stuck.
I will flat out admit that and say yes that's exactly what I am afraid of becoming. And frankly the odds seem to favor the Nebraska's, UCLA's, Auburn's, FSU, TN (although both seem to be doing better but still how long?) FL, and Pitt's of the world.
I don't think we are angry but I think we or at least I want to see what happens in the next few years.
Is 10-2 or 11-1 with a shot at the playoffs really that bad? I mean compared to the other possibility?
And if you are going to turn everything upside down you better have someone good in mind.
I doubt they will need a 100,000+ stadium for a 10+ seasons of single digits wins (which is what Nebraska is currently).
Oh and about that pesky Stadium Reno...
I don't know how to answer your question. You're looking at replacing 10-2 with a bowl game with 10-2 and potential playoff win, but no realistic shot at a national title.
If you want to look to history as a teacher, than James Franklin will never get over that last hill. At least not with Penn State.
You can say that all day long and always say....oooops I was glad I was wrong if it does occur. Taking the field is pretty easy to do minus 3-4 programs. He has the program firmly in the top ten currently and has won the conference. Is it frequent enough, no it's not, but when you state things like it can never happen and try to package it up as fact over opinion....maybe it's a bit hyperbolic and emotional following a tough loss. Again the emotions after a loss on sites like this (every big program, not just PSU) are overblown and knee jerky at times....we'll see what happens as he isn't going anywhere.
Last edited:
So if I talk about Franklin not being good enough, that’s a “hissy fit”? It sounds like you’re having a hissy fit about anyone who won’t just shut up and say rah rah Franklin.
This is a message board. We share messages. This idea I’m not allowed to come on here and discuss whether Franklin is good enough means I have to go picket outside Old Main and write a check for $20mm or else say nothing is really odd.
You won’t believe this, but in real life, I also discuss things like the situation in Israel, despite having almost no ability to do anything about it. Guess I should stop that too.
Does Franklin get any credit when PSU goes 11-2 and wins the Rose Bowl? On this website you don’t. It is all negative, when PSU loses its Franklin’s fault. When they win it’s because of Diaz or Yurcich. It gets nauseating.
So is saying "you want to win more" than others just because they aren't pretending the coach needs to go with where the program was for decades and where it is at currently. 1994 was almost 30 years ago. PSU hasn't been consistently elite since then, but at least now they are in the hunt in most years. They are firmly a top 10 program and will be in the playoffs for years to come with the current state of the program.
In all honestly if I were you I would start praying some SEC school or big school has a ton of money I guess because in reality that is the only way something will change and it may not be the great result you hope for in the end. Maybe PSU turns into UGA or maybe they become a turnstile like countless other schools similar to PSU. Odds are they aren't turning into UGA FWIW, the odds are pretty stacked in the other direction when you look around the country. Discussions are great when they are grounded in some type of reality.
I will flat out admit that and say yes that's exactly what I am afraid of becoming. And frankly the odds seem to favor the Nebraska's, UCLA's, Auburn's, FSU, TN (although both seem to be doing better but still how long?) FL, and Pitt's of the world.
I don't think we are angry but I think we or at least I want to see what happens in the next few years.
Is 10-2 or 11-1 with a shot at the playoffs really that bad? I mean compared to the other possibility?
And if you are going to turn everything upside down you better have someone good in mind.
I doubt they will need a 100,000+ stadium for a 10+ seasons of single digits wins (which is what Nebraska is currently).
Oh and about that pesky Stadium Reno...
I don't get the Nebraska comparison; I'd say PSU is more like Ohio State, Georgia, or Oklahoma in that there are just far too many positives, especially today, for the program to fall that far with a coaching change (unless you pull a USC and somehow hire worse coaches than the ones before until you decide to go for broke with a big time proven talent). Nebraska also has a booster issue, as does Texas.
Look - we're really in a two game season. All games matter, but some matter more than others (thank you Napoleon). How do we know this? At yesterday's press conference Indiana was mentioned a couple of times at the beginning. The rest of the press conference was dedicated to the game they just lost. There just might be enough issues at Michigan for them to falter (maybe they can't steal signs anymore) and we play them at home - win there and who knows? I think it's unlikely, but there is hope. The expanded playoff and investment in the program will pay dividends. Franklin will have to capitalize with recruits, which are the absolute key to success. It would also help if Franklin ever learned a lesson about risk/reward and momentum. He needs to let his coordinator's do their thing without interfering. We know he's an excellent CEO, but he's done very little to establish he's a wunderkind when it comes to offensive playcalling.
I'm actually not emotional over the loss because I expected Penn State to lose. I would have been happy if they won, but I wasn't upset that they lost.
There's been some discussion of history being a teacher. If that's the case, then the idea that James Franklin will "figure it out" sometime in the next two to three years is absurdly low. Generally speaking, a coach "gets it" sometime between years 4 and 6 and they maintain it for a sustained period or quickly fall off. It's entirely possible that 2016 was his "get it" year and he was never able to sustain it.
Yes we need a wunderkind !. Ted went to English football, maybe Nathan Shelley comes to American football.
I think the Nebraska comparison comes into play because they were kind of right where we are now before they burned it all down. Actually I think we are still further ahead of them but that's just MO.
I don't know about the boosters and Nebraska I thought they had other issues as well. As for Texas I thought they were loaded with money or is it just one guy that controls the purse strings? Red McCombs and its gotten tough for them since his passing?
After listening to Franklin's PC yesterday I came away with a different impression. His PC made me believe he is not as "hands on" as some people think.
Anyway that poster asked for someone to admit it and I am that guy.
One other note here for those that want to compare UGa and Richt who was in a DOWN SEC East at the time to PSU with Frankin. UT and UF were hot messes and the SEC West was being run by Bama and LSU. The SEC East was not as top heavy as the B1G East at the time, not even close. The other issue is while Smart elevated that program to crazy heights in a talent rich state and area, so many other schools chase their tails every 3-4 years with it not working out. From what Richt was doing and what he was up against, I'm just not seeing the apples to apples comparison.
Here is Richts last 7 years... 1 Eleven+ win season.
8-5 Independence
6-7 Liberty
10-4 Outback
12-2 Citrus
8-5 Gator
10-3 Belk
9-3 Taxslayer bowl
JF the last 7 years...4 Eleven win seasons.
11-3 Rose Bowl***
11-2 Fiesta***
9-4 Citrus
11-2 Cotton***
4-5 Covid, no bowl, shortened season
7-6 Outback
11-2 Rose***
*** = NYD 6 Bowl games
Here is Richts last 7 years... 1 Eleven+ win season.
8-5 Independence
6-7 Liberty
10-4 Outback
12-2 Citrus
8-5 Gator
10-3 Belk
9-3 Taxslayer bowl
JF the last 7 years...4 Eleven win seasons.
11-3 Rose Bowl***
11-2 Fiesta***
9-4 Citrus
11-2 Cotton***
4-5 Covid, no bowl, shortened season
7-6 Outback
11-2 Rose***
*** = NYD 6 Bowl games
Last edited:
What credit do you want him to get that he doesn't get? Beating teams like Iowa, Indiana, and Michigan State year in and year out
Oklahoma went a full decade being mediocre to bad. Bob Stoops and Lincoln Riley really changed the perception of that program.
I think I've expressed repeatedly in this thread that I understand it is much more likely we become Texas or Tennessee than Georgia. I do understand that reality, but if it were up to me, I'd be willing to accept that reality. I think after a decade we know Franklin won't ever get over that hump and take a next step. So I'd rather take at least take a swing at becoming Kirby Smart Georgia than accept being Mark Richt Georgia even if means risking becoming Ray Goff Georgia.
And I know me saying it doesn't make it happen, I'm just sharing my thoughts, just as you are on why we should keep him, which obviously has merit. The buyout is too large right now, nobody is taking him away, so I get this is just meaningless banter, but I'm a fan, it's what I do.
Butt hurt fanboys will boofnhoo. Franklin isn't going anywhere. His winning percentage is right in line with PSU's all time football winning percentage. I pointed out last year that Clifford was the best QB while many walked around all year with a chubby that was stimulated by Allar's 5 star rating. Cliff was not the better QB in terms of physical talent....just much much better at the pre snap duties. Getting the team into the right play is critical. Wanna look for a reason that there have been no explosive runs....look no futher. Allar is learning and perhaps he isn't even a 3 and done guy. Every player develops at a different pace. How sick are these Allar worshippers who after one loss suggest Beau is the answer? A few short days ago, we had the look what Michigan did with similar recruiting classes posters. LOL, where are they now? There is no cure for stupid, but BWI does provide a home.
Easy answer. He's independently wealthy and does whatever the $$$$ he wants. One of his favorite things is to read this site while he's going over his deposit slips! We deserve better. We need Harbaugh.
For the same reasons people go to games and berate the umpires/officials. They don't know much about the game.
Sure he does, I’ve supported him for a decade and give him all the credit for where we are now compared to when he took over (and not just on the field but in upgrading facilities etc). And I still say he’s a great coach. He just doesn’t have it what it takes to make Penn State a Big Ten or national title contender. It’s okay to acknowledge both are true.
There are plenty of facts you refuse to accept too with respect to Franklin. You don’t have to denigrate everyone who simply disagrees with you. Both sides of an argument can have merit.
The problem with developing a "plan" to be better is that it hinges on one element, selection of a coach. UGa lucked out, and I say lucked out because it wasn't a given that Kirby Smart would be as successful as he is. And for every Smart there are countless others that were no better or worse than their predecessors.
As a fan, with no responsibility other than what I'm going to eat and drink during the telecast, I say go for it, throw caution to the wind and get another guy. But put me in a position where I have financial responsibility for the program, my view changes pretty dramatically.
None of this changes my view that Franklin will not deliver PSU to the promised land
Here is a fact. There is never a loss....even some wins.....that doesn't result in blame directly on the coaching staff.
Coaching is important....so is officiating. But, the overwhelming determining factor in an athletic contest is the athlete on the field. Should we blame coaching for the strip and score being called back? Do we blame coaching for incomplete passes?
PSU had talent good enough to win on Saturday. But the last 5 years of recruiting rankings tell us that the best athletes were not wearing blue and white.....and that's a fact.
Get unlimited access today.